Welding advice needed

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing Forum' started by Rocky7, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. Rocky7

    Rocky7 New Member

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    I have a custom 7mm that a gunsmith ground the rear 1" + on both feed rails to try fixing a feeding problem with longer handloads. His grinding didn't work and it turns out that wasn't the problem (it's now been fixed with, among other things, a stronger magazine spring).

    Anyway, I'd like to get those feed rails welded and then stoned/ground back flush and smooth. The rails were left so rough I can see wee bits of brass under the feed rails.

    We have a huge shortage of gunsmiths in Alberta.

    Can a good welder do this? What should be done to prevent heating/warping the action? What's the process - MIG, TIG or ?

    Any help here would sure be appreciated, 'specially from someone that's had welding like this done.

    thanks.
     
  2. JayCody

    JayCody New Member

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    I doubt that a welder would work on a firearm because they would be liable if anything were to happen and they don't have the right insurance.

    Good luck
     

  3. Rocky7

    Rocky7 New Member

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    I sure hope that's not true. :(
     
  4. JayCody

    JayCody New Member

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    I would call the local gunsmiths and see if they can do it or send you to someone who can. How custom is it? It may make more sense to buy a new one.
     
  5. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    that much welding is going to cause temper issues. the whole reciever would have to be re-heat treated. not an easy or cheap task. you would need to find a REALLY REALLY good welder as inside welding isnt easy.

    then you would need a machinist to re-grind the rails.

    then you will need somone that KNOWS how to heat treat rifle recievers.

    prolly cheaper to replace the reciever.

    i would consider legal action against the "gunsmith" for grinding on your rifle.
     
  6. Rocky7

    Rocky7 New Member

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    Crap.

    How good is it? It's the first custom rifle I built and it was to be an heirloom. It will put 160 Accubonds into one raggedy hole. It has a Claro stock which is the only one I built that is not AAA English so that's really the only thing I don't love about it.

    I was hoping for other advice.

    I'd like to buy a vowel. :)
     
  7. deathkricket

    deathkricket New Member

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    If it HAD to be done I would run a very fine MIG wire along the rails and build up a small bead, then take a set of fine die grinds and smooth it back down to the desired specifications. But I DON'T recommend it because you will get ditty balls, spatter or arc blow all in the action of the gun and then your in a whole different world of trouble. I have done repair work like this a good bit before but never on a rifle and unless I could remove said part out of the gun's action would never attempt it. Unless the rails are causing serious malfunctions I would leave them be, that beings said if they are rough a good polish will smooth them back out.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  8. Rocky7

    Rocky7 New Member

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    I don't mind spinning the barrel off. The bolt comes out, of course. So does the magazine box. That would/should leave fairly good access to the feed rails from the bottom of the action, don't you think???
     
  9. KG7IL

    KG7IL Well-Known Member

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    I would think you'd create a heating issue. Annealing a receiver is not a good thing.

    How would you address the heating . . that is hot enough to melt steel, but not affect the existing heat treat?
    I am with Jon on the required steps.
     
  10. deathkricket

    deathkricket New Member

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    It has already been stated it would need to be heat treated after the process is done. I also said I would never attempt it unless said part can be removed out of the receiver. I am not that mad of a scientist. I also said --->HAD<---:D
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  11. Rocky7

    Rocky7 New Member

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    I sure appreciate all your input. It's not what I was hoping for, but better to be disappointed here where it doesn't cost money.

    Jon, I can't sue the guy. He's a likeable old fart and has done me a few good turns. He meant well and I prolly should've trusted my gut and stopped him.

    I hoped it might be possible to lay it on ice or something and weld a line without heating the receiver too much...
    [​IMG]
     
  12. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i can understand trusting someone like that. i did a similar with my beloved 458winmag and scope bases.

    i dabble welding with making bbq pits. what welding does is melt steel so it pools and mixes with the weld rod/wire. no ammount of ice is going to offset the heat damage that the reciever will suffer. it doesnt take much heat to turn a reciever from a rifle to a bomb.

    a welding arc is about 6500F the temp of the sun is 10000F on the surface. welding gets pretty hot.

    i am always amazed at how fast it can heat a block of steel to burn through gloves while the part is held in pliers...

    im not saying it cant be done but the weld and grind to fit is going to cost more than a new reciever.
     
  13. jigs-n-fixture

    jigs-n-fixture Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I think the "right" approach is to machine out the rail, and silver solder in a replacement. This keeps the temp down, so you don't muck up the receiver.
     
  14. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    I know a welder I would trust to do it. He is one in a million though. Not many are that good. Put it this way, you trusted a gunsmith and he screwed it up. How many welders are you willing to let attempt it?
     
  15. kpatricn

    kpatricn New Member

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    Tig welding would be your best bet if your going to try welding it and it can't be done all at once. There is no arc splatter and your welder needs to do it in spots. What I'm saying is if it takes the whole day,then so be it. Spot weld in an area then move to the opposite end and do a spot weld then let it cool all the way off before doing it again. Then a couple of more spots in completely different areas and so on and so on. This will help prevent warping and pulling of the steel. Just hope the nozzle of the Tig gun will fit in were you need it. You can do body work with a tig with minimal warping and thats running a bead it's your coolest cleanest welding form.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
  16. clr8ter

    clr8ter New Member

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    Part of my job involves TIG welding. Under NO circumstances is this a job for MIG welding. And, JonM pretty much has it right, IMHO. So not worth the effort, get a new receiver. It'll be ridiculously hard to find a guy who WILL do it, and most of those guys probably COULDN'T do it. (Want it screwed up more?)

    Does the receiver function properly? Is it "Ugly"'? Is the tampering obvious when assembled? Is it still strong enough to do it's job? If so, maybe you should just leave it alone. Or if not, I'd ask the old fart to split the cost of a new receiver with you.

    How about some photos?
     
  17. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    Yeah, some photos would help immensely.
     
  18. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Find someone that can TIG weld and do it well , Look at some of their work because I know alot of people that can TIG weld but their work isnt what I would call quality work. I had one guy " he is retired and out of the business now " that I had TIG stuff for me and if I told him to make it look like the rest of the factory welds , thats what it looked like when he was done. Wish he hadnt retired and sold off all his equipment because I have a couple other projects I could have used him for
    TIG welding is a art as far as I'm concerned . Some people do it well , others are just plain artists with their work
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
  19. willshoum

    willshoum New Member

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    Show pics of what you need done, place a scale next to said item. Will work from there............The only thing I can't weld is a broken heart, that is another catergory.......;)
     
  20. Rocky7

    Rocky7 New Member

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    I might have line on a fussy guy and will show him the work next week. If he says he can do it and I get a good feeling, I will post "before" and "after" pictures.