Weight of sniper rifles?

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by Vincine, Mar 10, 2014.

  1. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    Despite only having a 100y range nearby, I've an interest in long range shooting. So I occasionally wander around sniper sites. Do current military snipers teams use a heavy barreled rifles for shot consistency, or light barrels because they have to hump it to god knows where? I guess I'm thinking about .308s mostly. I can't imagine there's any such thing as a 'light' .50.

    Also thinking about .50s; at what point does a rifle becomes a cannon?
     
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    The USMC uses the M40A3- weighs 16.5 lbs. Compared to the weight of the REST of the stuff that you will carry- that is hardly a drop in the bucket.

    US Army uses the M24, at 16 lbs. Both are .308s (7.62 NATO Match)

    16mm bore diameter crosses the line from MG to cannon (or grenade laucher)
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    A rifle becomes a cannon at .51 caliber...

    Historicly if a gun had wheels or had to be mounted in a fixture to fire it was a cannon.
     
  4. Baxter

    Baxter New Member

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    You can build a M24(army sniper rifle) for a fairly reasonable price ($2000 or so,...compared to $4000 plus)It is built off of a Remington 700 action. Has a 5r 24inch barrel(I think twist is 1-11.25) however you can tailor your barrel length and twist rate to your liking)many manufacturers now make them. Stock is a HS precision M24 stock(also many options through HS, adjustable LOP , cheek rest etc.)No doubt you would want to give it a tuneup on the action and a good trigger job.

    Yes it does use a heavy barrel. Most manufacturers that make the 5r barrels have options for different contours. M24 contour is usually an option.

    Good part about it, if you you don't have the funds right away, you can build it over time replacing part by part while still enjoying the rifle.

    The Optics is where you can really save or splurge. The actual M24 system uses a Leupold. Not sure of the model




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    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  5. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    they also use nightforce optics. just depends on whats in the pipeline when the build is done.

    not a fan of the leupolds i sold my mark4 after it started deliminating with something flaking off the insides. looked like pepper flakes were sprinkiled inside the lenses. the person buying it sent it back and got it repaired and is happy with it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  6. Baxter

    Baxter New Member

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    I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the info!


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  7. Vincine

    Vincine New Member

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    I could, but I wouldn't have anywhere convenient to shoot it. The nearesst 300y ranges are an hour away. The 1ky is a couple of hours. So that would mean planing to spend most of a day for me. There is a lot of public land up here in the park, but it's forrest. And then there's the money to feed it, although the way match 22lr is going, I'm not sure that's going to be continue to be a difference.

    And then of course, I'm having SO much fun (not) trying to beat the wind, with a slow 40gr. at the club's 100y range on the flats adjacent to the river here.

    Maybe when/if I get my 100y yard 22lr group down to 1.75", I'll look into a bigger caliber. Or a better rifle.

    In the meantime it's just acadamic for me.
     
  8. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    I thought the unspoken challenge here was to be

    able to hit a deer, or wild boar at 300 or 400 yards

    without using a 15-pound Magilla rifle...
     
  9. lbwar15

    lbwar15 New Member

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    Cannons also do not have rifling in the barrel. That's why they refer to the ons on navy ships as guns not cannons. And from my understanding most military use .308 out to 1200 yards. Beyond that they use the .50


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  10. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    In historical terms thats true. Cannons no rifling guns rifling when describing nonshouldered firearms and military gear. Modern terms cannons can be rifled as in the 20 and 30mm cannons used in changun applications... See how it gets confusingly stupid. Heh.

    Then you have the m1 abram tank with its 120mm gun that is most certainly a cannon....
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  11. lbwar15

    lbwar15 New Member

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    I just picked up a rem 700 sps tactical. The 20" barrel is said to be more accurate than the 24" of the varmint due to it being more rigged. The extra 4" is going to give you about 150 fps which most say isn't going to matter unless your trying to shoot out past 1000 yards. The sps tactical has been categorized as a sub 1/2 moa gun right out the box. I believe that is an upgrade to what our military is currently using. Btw the military snipers use a rem 700 action.


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  12. lbwar15

    lbwar15 New Member

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  13. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    You miss one very important fact, maybe 2. The Military Snipers are not factory rifles. 22" is becoming the new norm in most places. The 24" barrel is used to help reduce muzzle flash, it does. BTW, Military snipers use actions other then the 700. For .308, they use the 700, but w/ a 1 piece milled bolt, and blueprinted action which gives it abilities far beyond a Remington SPS. This is a Howa 1500 action ( Similar to the 700 in many respects, but the flat bottom receiver makes it more ridged). It has a 1 piece milled bolt, 22" HB w/ marine Corp crown, 1:10 twist for heavy bullets. It is topped w/ a Sightron SII 3-12x42mmAO Big Sky. It can reach out. It is pillar bedded.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Trez

    Trez Well-Known Member

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    A Mosin 91/30 PU weighs approx. 11 lbs...


    :p
     
  15. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Just weighed my 91/30PU, wood stock, not a wood laminate 10.5lb
    My K98 Low turret is 9.75lb, again walnut stock not a laminate.
     
  16. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    Lugging a 16 pound rifle around would just

    take the fun out of shooting, for me.
     
  17. orangello

    orangello New Member

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    V, why not use scale to your advantage? Get a nice .177 air rifle and you could use a scale distance of the magical 1000 yards divided by about 1.74 (.308/.177) to scale down the range by projectile size. Scaling down by range might have you shooting indoors. Of course, the target size should be scaled down also.

    :D
     
  18. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Even when it comes to .223 Varmint rifles there is a huge difference. It made my choice easy.
    Remington 700SPS varmint 8.5lb, plastic stock, 26" 1:12 twist barrel.
    CZ 527 Varminter 7.8lb Walnut stock, 25.5" 1:9 twist barrel
     
  19. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    A special purpose AR, similar to the Mk 12, would do what you could reasonably do with an accurate rifle out to a pretty respectable distance. The match grade 5.56MM ammunition is cheaper and more readily available than match grade 7.62MM ammunition and the cost differential between a Remington M40 and what you could easily build with respect to a Mk12 style SPR upper is significant. If you already have a AR lower, then all you need to do is build or buy your upper.

    You can select a lightweight bipod and an intended use-appropriate lightweight optic and come up with a very accurate rifle that will do everything the Mk 12 will, cheaper/better/faster (about 9 pounds for the rifle/optic/bipod combination). If you don't have to mount NV on your rifle, the heavy rail system that the Mk12 uses is not necessary.

    Go to Bravo Company's website and look at their take on Mk 12 uppers. 1K to 1.5K is not a bad price to get into a semi-auto that can consistently hit targets with precision out to five or six hundred yards or so.

    Factor in another $500 to 1K for a quality fixed magnification scope. The variable magnification scopes that have repeatable adjustments will cost more money. The repeatability of the adjustments is important. Optical quality should be good, but lots of the things you'd see at longer ranges won't be noticeable to you at the distances where you could reasonably shoot your rifle at, so I wouldn't worry about special optical lens setups designed not to display image distortion at longer ranges.

    I've seen other companies market similar products. The Mk 12 style upper has some popularity amongst the target shooting crowd who won't carry around a massive .308 bolt-action with them.
     
  20. kbd512

    kbd512 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

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    If you're set on a light .308 bolt action, there are lightweight and accurate rifles that can be had for more money. They have lightweight barrels and all will, to some degree, string shots if those shots are rapidly fired.

    When people ask me this question, I generally tell them to start with .223/5.56MM, learn about range estimation, optics, adjustments for environmental factors and ballistics, and then move up to a .308/7.62MM after you've mastered all of the prerequisites for accurate long range shooting.

    A lot of people already have AR's, so the AR is a natural place to start the learning process with.