Wasn't allowed to shoot 762x54r

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by gatopardo, Oct 24, 2010.

  1. gatopardo

    gatopardo New Member

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    Today My wife and I went to our regular shooting range to spend a few bullets away, and we were told that 7.62x54r wasn't allowed ammo anymore and they showed me the Winchester, USA made caliber had a steel core, I was upset of course, what fun can I have a the range If I can't use a .308 or 7.62x54,( 5.56x54 is just not the same, it doesn't have the same boom!)

    To make things worse, I have a couple of boxes they sold me, sometime before, with the pretext that Winchester was the only brand allowed. Needles to say, I want my money back.

    A question is : Why would Winchester manufacture that specific caliber with a steel core, for local consumption, that is beyond my understanding, since that is not a current military specs needed ammunition.( I can understand soviet era surplus ammo, for obvious reasons). I any case , if I 'd like to fold down a deer, I would use a soft nosed round.

    I was told however, there was a store where I "could purchase a lead core round for use in their range", i think the whole affair was BS, because if they know about that specific round why wouldn't they make it available to their customers, one doesn't need 2 inches of forehead to understand that.

    Has anyone experienced something similar? What are your thoughts?
     
  2. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    The Win white box sometimes has a steel jacket in .308. Maybe it is the same for the 7.62x54?

    Here in Cali we can't shoot ammo that will stick to a magnet at the outdoor ranges. Only out in the boonies (as allowed by the PoPo).

    Fear of sparks causing a fire.
     

  3. nwrednk

    nwrednk New Member

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    7.62x54r ammo is hard to find...

    In a non corrosive form in brass cased ammo, but not impossible! (If I had
    purchased a deer tag) And been carrying my Mosin/Nagant this past hunting
    season I would have tagged a very nice whitetailed buck...but, my freezer
    is still loaded with deer meat to the point that we are feeding most of it to
    our beagles!:D
     
  4. Highpower

    Highpower New Member

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    Same here at the local ranges. They say the steel core / jacket tears up the backstops, ricochets and starts fires. It's their range - their rules. What can you do?

    But if a magnet doesn't stick to the bullet, you are ok to shoot it no matter what kind of case it is. Just one more good reason for folks to load their own ammo.
     
  5. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    There is a common misconception that a megnet will stick to it, it is steel cored or jacketed. Winchester does not make any steel core or jacketed rifle ammo. In many rifle calibers they use a "Bi-mretal" jacket that is Cupro Nickle. A magnet will attract slightly to the nickle. The range operators are ill-informed. I doubt you will be able to convince them otherwise.
     
  6. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    100% correct on the Cupro nickel. It is often a mix of nickel or copper and iron.
    Most 7.62x54r is a lead core, there is very little w/ steel.

    OP, simply cut the top of a bullet off w/ a hacksaw and show them the err of their ways. Notice the discription of this ammo.
    Polish 7.62x54R 300rds on Chargers 1950s Light Ball
     
  7. Shade

    Shade New Member

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    Correct, the wives tales abound about ammo, but just in the last year or so
    this one has been gaining way to much strength. Fortunately at my range
    they are smarter than the rumors.

    You are likely right, and that is sad for them.

    Actually you are somewhat wrong.

    Copper Nickel alloys are alloy of those two metals at varying percentages,
    iron is insoluble in this alloy system. When the percentage of Nickel exceeds
    50% by mass the alloy is commonly referred to as its commercial name Monel.

    I am very familiar with these alloys as I have welded and brazed them many
    times.

    Nickel is very expensive.
    Stocks and Metals Charts

    Copper is relatively cheaper.
    Kitco - Spot Copper Historical Charts and Graphs - Copper charts - Industrial metals

    Keep in mind the pricing above is what the primary mills pay for incoming
    copper and nickel, processed sheet, wire etc. is higher. Ammo mfr. are
    purchasing at a higher cost.

    If Winchester is using a copper nickel alloy, which I have my doubts but
    cannot find any reference to refute one way or the other, it would be a very
    low percentage of nickel.

    Adding nickel to the jacketing material will:
    - increase cost, something ammo manufactures will not willingly do
    - increase the hardness of the jacket, again a bad thing for guns
    - increase the corrosion resisitance of the alloy

    Monel is not even magnetic something to due with the alloying of copper.

    Pure nickel is magnetic (proper term is ferro-magnetic) as is pure cobalt
    both lesser so than pure iron. Alloys of cobalt nickel and iron remain
    magnetic. However, other alloying elements such as chromium will eliminate
    the magnetic properties, think stainless steels, although low alloy stainlesses
    such as 303 and 304 are slightly magnetic, but I call 303 and 304 almost
    stainless as they will rust.
     
  8. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Not sure where your info comes from.
    Mu-metal is a nickel-iron alloy (approximately 75% nickel, 15% iron, plus copper and molybdenum)
    Depending on the "mix" it is common in bullet jackets. W/ a higher Nickel/ copper value it is a cupro nickel alloy.
     
  9. Cory2

    Cory2 New Member

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    Now wait a minute, I'm confused:confused: are you all trying to say that steel core ammunition will not stick to a magnet? Because i just tested it to make sure and my 7.62x54r (7n14 Steel core armor piercing) sticks to a magnet like a mofo.
     
  10. M14sRock

    M14sRock New Member

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    Steel core is most certainly attracted to a magnet, but not all ammo that is attracted to a magnet is steel cored. Sometimes the bullet has been steel washed, cupro nickel plated, mild steel jacketed, etc.
     
  11. gatopardo

    gatopardo New Member

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    Cut in half

    That is exactly what I'm doing next, I've cut Soviet era ammunition before, and in fact, the core proves to be a very soft steel alloy, very soft indeed since did I cut the bullet by hand with a regular Hacksaw.

    When I brought the issue to management, there were disagreements for a moment and awkward looks between them, after all I've been buying and shooting the very same type of ammo from them, and that would probably explain why the paper holder frames look like cheese heads, full of holes.

    Gato
     
  12. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    You will find that true steel core or steel jacketed will be STRONGLY attracted to a magnet. Cupro-Nickle jacketed will be very slightly attracted to the magnet. The difference is wuite obvious.

    Even new manufacture Winchester .308 147gr FMJBT bullets are advertised as Cupro-Nickle jacketed and obviously not steel anything.
     
  13. gatopardo

    gatopardo New Member

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    Is that alloy a soft one? that would explain why it is so easy to cut thru.
    The magnetic attraction between the soviet ammo and the Winchesters seem to be the same.:eek:
     
  14. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Yes, Cupro Nickle is relatively soft. Your hacksaw would not be able to tell the difference between Cu-Ni and traditional gilding metal.

    Now, the one you cut through. You should probably not shoot it as the core will try to squirt through and out of the jacket. There is a high probability of the jacket getting lodged in the barrel. Firing a 2nd round behind it could be disasterous.
     
  15. gatopardo

    gatopardo New Member

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    Thanks

    Thanks for the warning, does anyone know if the soft nosed Winchester version has a full lead core, maybe that is my solution for range shooting.

    Gato