Was John Browning OK With The Idiot Scratch?

Discussion in '1911 Forum' started by Mercator, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. W.T. Sherman

    W.T. Sherman Well-Known Member

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    nah, that won't work. never underestimate idiots they'll find a way around that
     
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  2. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    LMFAO!!!
     

  3. freefall

    freefall Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of the Browning Museum in Ogden. It's a very small place, probably 40x50'. But there is a metric sh*t-ton of history in there. Whilst we were there Bruce Browning came in to check out a pre-war pocket pistol. I didn't intrude to see what it was.
    There are 4-5 other museums in the same complex. One kind of lame cowboy museum, a nice little one of antique cars, and a really great Union Pacific museum. And Ogden is flat-assted beautiful.
    Enough of my travel-gram, carry on.
     
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  4. Ingramite

    Ingramite Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My very first 1911 was a collector Champion GI
    What made it collectable was a semi circle idiot scratch on the right side of the frame AND slide.
    The guy I bought it from told me the prior operator was a southpaw.
    These facts helped me sell it to an equally savvy collector a few years later.
     
  5. AZdave

    AZdave Well-Known Member

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    A lot of neat stuff to see. Well worth the trip.

    It is hard to make anything idiot-proof, because idiots are so creative.
     
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  6. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    I’m lost. Why would that make the gun more collectible?
     
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  7. Ingramite

    Ingramite Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The enhanced value and collect ability all centered around the scratches on the right side of the frame and slide.
    "You'll never find another like this". Those words still echoing in my head.
    He told me that if I ever had it refinished it would lose all value.
    Heck, it sounded like a $1,500 pistol to me.
     
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  8. W.T. Sherman

    W.T. Sherman Well-Known Member

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    must be the same guy who sells all those firearms, "only 200 rounds fired through it"[​IMG]
     
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  9. Ingramite

    Ingramite Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, it was at a gun show
     
  10. W.T. Sherman

    W.T. Sherman Well-Known Member

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    he does get around, there is no denying that :D
     
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  11. 45ACP223

    45ACP223 Member

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    I think the Mfg. should include the idiot scratch and put mint mark/symbol in the center of it. Then it wouldn't bother anyone. I say, if you own a 1911 shoot the hell out of it and don't worry about keeping it pristine and pretty. All of my bullseye guns look like they have been used in a war, but still shoot 10's.
     
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  12. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

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    Oh nothing is as precious as beating the next guy with a gun half the price of his :)
     
  13. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

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    Most of us know that guy. He is at every gun show only changes his looks:)
     
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  14. boatme98

    boatme98 Well-Known Member

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    DSCN0404.JPG

    My 1995 Govt. 380. You can just make out the scratch on the frame. None on the slide.
    It was there when I bought it but I'm sure I'd have added it eventually. :D
     
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  15. Fred_G

    Fred_G Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I suspect the "Idiot Scratch" came about when people started buying custom or semi custom 1911's that were well over the price of a normal 1911. A scratch on a sub $800 gun is not a big deal, an idiot scratch on a $3000+ 1911 you are trying to sell can become an issue.
     
  16. Uncle Sam put a 1911 in my hand in 1973 and told me to go forth to make the world safe for democracy. It was my primary sidearm for the decade I spent cruising around in my tank both in CONUS and abroad. All of our 1911s were of WWII or earlier manufacture and had been through one or more depot level rebuilds.

    They were rattle traps and definitely not bullseye quality. But they went bang every time and were accurate enough to knock bad guys off the front slope or back deck.

    We used them as hammers and test beds for shooting .30 caliber bullets from cut down 7.62 cases. GIs with time on their hands are a dangerous lot.

    Our .45s were scratched and beaten so badly the parkerziing was not exactly full coverage.

    I now own, carry, and shoot 1911s that I paid for rather than the tax payer so I tend to take somewhat better care of them. Pride of ownership and all that. None of mine have the idiot scratch.
     
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  17. SGWGunsmith

    SGWGunsmith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, 'cause the right side grip panel and the Colt medallion is "pristine".
     
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  18. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    I must be dense... still don't get it... and it was a Champion GI, not a Colt.
     
  19. SGWGunsmith

    SGWGunsmith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    OK, had the picture of the Colt in post #34 in mind.
     
  20. Here's a trick that's been around for a while that will make reassembly faster, less frustrating, and will prevent the dreaded idiot scratch.

    Use a round file to create a shallow groove at the back of the slide stop as shown in the picture below. I pulled this slide stop out of a pistol and didn't clean it before taking the pic which accounts for the gunk on it. The idea is to make the groove just big enough and at an appropriate angle to engage the plunger pin when inserting the slide stop into the frame. As pressure is applied against the slide stop the plunger pin will be pushed back into its tube and the slide stop will snap easily into place.

    [​IMG]


    Here's a top down view showing the slide stop in contact with the plunger pin.

    [​IMG]


    Here's a close-up of the picture above. The black plunger pin is clearly visible and although you can't see it, the pin is in contact with the groove.

    [​IMG]


    Here's another view of the slide stop and plunger pin. All that needs to be done to seat the slide stop is to push it straight into the frame. There's no need to rotate the slide stop into position. Just place the groove over the pin and push in.

    [​IMG]


    Finally, here's a close-up of the pic above. It's not easy to see but the rounded end of the plunger pin is in contact with the rounded groove in the slide stop. The angle, depth, and width of the groove will determine how much pressure needs to be exerted on the slide stop to push the plunger pin back into its tube.

    [​IMG]