Was I in the wrong?

Discussion in 'NFA/Class 3 & FFL Discussion' started by CaseyChadwell, May 12, 2014.

  1. CaseyChadwell

    CaseyChadwell New Member

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    The other day I visited a pawn shop in Elizabethtown Kentucky. When I was in there I was looking over some of their firearms, which were over priced. I noticed a gsg-5 2lr (mp-5 clone) and noticed something very wrong. This particular firearm had a short barrel with a short birdcage flash hider that was not permanently attached to the barrel. Upon closer inspection I came to the conclusion that this "rifle" had started life as a pistol and someone then put a stock on it making it a short barreled rifle. There was no one to be found in the store who worked there in the few minutes I was in there and had to leave. Once I got home I called the pawn shop and told them I believed that firearm to be a SBR, and then told them it was an illegal firearm as I understood the law. I told the gentleman he may want to I quire about the law because it could cost him his business if my understanding of the law was correct. This "gentleman" then proceeded to cuss me out and tell me that he would sell it as a pistol with a rifle stock, which I told him I didn't believe was legal. After a few more minutes of cussing me he hung the phone up. Was I wrong in calling him and telling him it might be worth looking into and informing him on my interpretation of the law? Be definitely was not pleased with my phone call at all.
     
  2. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    I don't know enough to know whether you're correct or not. Calling and telling the guy that it might be worth a second look isn't out of line IMO. He'll be a lot more pissed if it turns out you are correct and he get's shut down and prosecuted.

    No good deed goes unpunished.
     

  3. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    He should be pleased that you chose to inform him to inquire about it with his local ATF office. You could have just called the ATF directly. Maybe his shop is being used for a Bloomberg sting.
     
  4. Alpha1Victor

    Alpha1Victor New Member

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    I think I would have left it alone. I understand why you wanted to inform the gentleman. Unfortunately it sounds like he took your information as an insult. Some people just don't want to admit they might be wrong. But him knowing that the rifle might actually be an SBR might save a couple of people a headache.
     
  5. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The shop might be a class 3 dealer, licensed to buy and sell short barreled rifles. But then, he could have told you that.


    no offense and none taken
     
  6. CaseyChadwell

    CaseyChadwell New Member

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    Forgot to mention that. I asked if he was a class 3 dealer and he said no. I'll know next time to just keep my mouth shut. Does anyone know if I was right on my interpretation of the law? If a firearm starts out as a handgun and you put a stock on it out does make that firearm a SBR, correct?
     
  7. TekGreg

    TekGreg Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    There are only a few very old (antique) pistols that could legally have a stock. Modern pistols cannot have a stock of any sort and would have to be licensed either as an AOW or SBR. I think it was thoughtful of you to point this out to him - his attitude is his problem and shouldn't deter you from trying to help others.
     
  8. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Yes , unless its a class 3 machine gun then its not considered a SBR . Machine guns classification has no length restrictions like building a SBR . But since he wasnt a class 3 dealer I doubt it was legal. I have seen a few class 3 dealers that arent sure exactly how the laws work. They usually call the BATFE if they have a question to make sure they are in the right and get their questions answered properly
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  9. indy36

    indy36 New Member

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    If I'd had been on the receiving end of getting cussed out for trying to be helpful I'd have a hard time not being the one to make that call to get him busted.


    Sent from my iPhone using Firearms Talk
     
  10. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    The same thought had occurred to me as well.
     
  11. CaseyChadwell

    CaseyChadwell New Member

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    Trust me, the thought crossed my mind. However, I am hoping that he does the right thing and contacts someone who can tell him for sure the law. Not to mention I hate seeing bad press on firearms... It gives us all a bad name to the people who don't really understand firearms... I don't want people thinking we are all clueless.
     
  12. fa35jsf

    fa35jsf New Member

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    You could perhaps give us the name and number. If a few dozen people pester him about it, his thick skull might just thin a little.
     
  13. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    I had the opposite experience at a pawn shop in GA. I walked in and looked at an AR on the wall. I got to looking at it and the bolt had two lugs broken off. I asked the shop owner if I could strip it and look inside to see if there was anything else wrong with it. Someone had put some of the full auto parts in it without the right carrier and without the ratchet mechanism because there was no third pin hole. I'm guessing that it sheared the lugs off because it didn't have the right FA disconnector in it. I told him the gun had illegal parts in it. His face went white. He called the local ATF rep and described the situation. The agent instructed him to hold the gun, and remove the trigger parts in a separate bag with the gun. They came by and picked it up. He didn't get in any trouble because he bought it in good faith and reported it as soon as he found out about it. He gave me pretty good discountss, and was happy that he didn't lose his license.
     
  14. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    You realize that was a near thing- you COULD have been doing business with the jerk!

    And no, do not feel you were out of line. There are a very few exceptions where a shoulder stock CAN be added to a handgun without making it a SBR (off the top of my head, certain Broomhandle Mausers, Lugers, and Browning Hi Powers).

    I was in my LGS one day, looking thru some used 22s, spotted a little single shot 22. On close exam, asked dealer if he had a tape measure. Yep- cut down barrel. 12 inches. NOT one of the antiques that have exceptions to barrel length. Dealer turned gray- "How did THAT get in here?" Turned out came in with an estate load of firearms the day before.
     
  15. TekGreg

    TekGreg Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Those were the only ones I could think of as well, other than the H&K VP70 pistol, where the M variant was made three-shot burst by the addition of a stock. Some of the Z variant (civilian) could mount a stock, but remained semiauto. Most of these were sold in Europe.
     
  16. sputnik1988

    sputnik1988 Active Member

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    Not in the wrong at all, you were doing the guy a favor. If he wants to be a prick about it screw him.

    I'm sure by now the entire US government has read this thread and is on their way to E-town.:p
     
  17. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The ATF has the illegal gun and the name of the person that pawned it. Someone is in trouble but not the dealer. He is probably out the pawn money though. You did him a big favor.