Vietnam Snipers

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by estrack2, Jun 28, 2011.

  1. estrack2

    estrack2 New Member

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    Me and my brother were having a discussion the other day about army issue sniper rifles. we had an argument about what rifle americans sniped with in Vietnam.. I thought winchester model 70, he was thinking Remington 700.

    More specifically, what the famed Carlos Hathcock used i his ventures.
     

  2. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Carlos, and his instructor/mentor Chuck Mawhinney, used off the shelf Winchester Model 70's in .30-06

    The Remington 700 was not introduced until later in the "war" and was a long action with a .308 caliber round that was not loved by those on the ground that had already fielded the superior range and power of the .30-06 cartridge.

    JD
     
  3. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    This is why I don't like linking to outside sites and prefer to use my library as history has a way of being "distorted" for profit.

    Mawhinney and Hathcock both shunned the 700 when it was introduced and held onto the Model 70 in .30-06 for as long as the could.

    If you read the Chandler's series on Mawhinney and Hathcock, (Death from Afar) you will find field pictures of both with the Model 70 and talk of the .30-06 round in use.

    "One Shot, One Kill" 93 Confirmed Kills is also a very good read where Carlos' exploits are documented and they do talk about the change over between the Model 70 to the Model 700.
     
  4. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    M16a1, springfield 1903a4, m1c garand, m1d garand, m14, mod 700, mod 70, m2 browning were all used to some extent or other. there was no "official" sniper weapon until late in the vietnam conflict. the reason for this was sniping was abandoned at the end of ww2 then re-instated for korea and abandoned again the finally fully adopted as a core military mos and discipline in the 70's.

    sniper recruitment was pretty much "hey this guy looks like he can shoot give him a scope!!"

    pretty much anything that could be scoped was drafted into sniping duty. there was no official sniper rifle until the mod 700 was adopted

    there were a LOT more snipers than just hathcock and the 4 or 5 that are well known.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  5. trex1310

    trex1310 New Member

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    When I was in Vietnam I didn't see nearly as many snipers as
    there are on these forums. Most of the snipers I saw were on the other
    side. As a matter of fact, I was nearly a statistic. I still walk with a limp. :cool:
     
  6. Comeswithbacon

    Comeswithbacon New Member

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    By the way, his biography (Carlos Hathcock) is one REALY good book.
    It tells you how him and his spotter pined down a company of NVA (in detail) his personal life and alot more...
     
  7. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    OK first things first.

    Carlos and Chuck where USMC Snipers NOT US ARMY Snipers.

    Carlos also used a Browning M2 Machine gun with an 10x Unertal scope he mounted on it. I do believe he made a 2300 yard kill with that setup.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2011
  8. cuznguido

    cuznguido New Member

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    I have heard that story before how Hathcock mounted a scope on a Ma Deuce and used it as a sniper rifle. To say that i am sceptical of such a thing would be the understatement of the year. I would REALLY like to see some evidence of that.
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Then I would suggest that you pick up a copy of "Death from Afar" from the Chandler library where you can see pictures for yourself.

    JD
     
  10. cuznguido

    cuznguido New Member

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    I have read the book and readily admit that the old memory ain't what it should be so I will look again. Even with a picture etc. though, my mind can still not get wrapped around the idea that anyone could anything with that setup. Just the vibration of the bolt slamming forward would seem to me to eliminate any possibility of "sniper quality" accuracy, not even considering the barrel being loosey goosey in the extreme.
     
  11. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    The thing was the cycle rate of the M2 is so slow that it allows you to squeeze a round off. and the recoil when mounted on a solid tripod is not really that much.

    Plus by using a fixed power scope they are much more durable than variable esp variables of that time.

    My dad has a rifle with a 12x unertal on it. I would say in the 60's they were Leupold Mk IV to nightforce quality today.
     
  12. estrack2

    estrack2 New Member

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    gratitude

    . As a matter of fact, I was nearly a statistic. I still walk with a limp. :cool:[/QUOTE]
     
  13. RONSERESURPLUS

    RONSERESURPLUS New Member

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    So Tired of Sniper Wanna Be's?

    Hello all,RON L here


    I served my Country inthe Navy for 24years, I was a Simple sailor, a Sonarman with a few different schoolds at the end that made my career a Bit Diverse, I wasn't a Seal or EOD, Much less a Sniper in Viet nam? Just seems when I meet others that wee inthe Military especially inthe Viet nam era they wee all Seals, Or Snipers or Marine Recon or Delta? I guess thier were no Cooks, and Clears and Typeists? LOL I just see so much of it as BullS--T! I have Met Carlos hathcock and all and he was a Great and Humble man! Like so many with Real skils he didn have toi invent his Legacy and History, he lived it?

    RON
     
  14. orangello

    orangello New Member

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  15. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Hathcock (and "Company" - You'll get the joke if you read the book) actually built quite a neat looking little rigging system that mounted to existing hardware on the M2.

    Fired on single shot the hit on the target in question took a total of two shots to kill the target.
     
  16. Trip83

    Trip83 New Member

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  17. Recon 173

    Recon 173 New Member

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    I did 19 months in Viet Nam. The last 7 months over there I was an Army sniper. Army snipers used XM-21 sniper rifles. The XM-21 shot a 7.62 NATO National Match round and had a 3 by 9 variable Redfield scope on it. When we practiced we would make shots out to 900 meters on a steel silhouette targets. The XM-21 were basically upgraded M-14 rifles of a higher than normal quality. The unit I served with was the 173D Airborne Brigade. I was with the 1/503rd Infantry out of L.Z. Uplift.

    A good book about snipers from the 173D is one that was written by James Gibbore and is titled "Soldier." Keep in mind, as you read the book, that Gibbore did take some "leeways" while he wrote it.
     
  18. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    You hear a lot about the 1903 Springfield being popular with snipers for it's

    accuracy, right out of the box.

    IMO, the gun, much like a hammer, is just the tool, anyway. The real

    meat and potatoes is the actual skill of the marksman.

    Somebody with real skills and an 80 $ bolt action would make me look

    like a blind man, even if I had a 10,000$ gun...