Video: Youngest working with new guns

Discussion in 'Range Report' started by fmj, Oct 2, 2011.

  1. fmj

    fmj New Member

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    I guess this goes here.

    **disclaimer**

    I know there are some safety issues seen in this footage. (finger in the trigger guard, finger on the trigger when not ready to fire, muzzle control) But, I will tell you now, when we got home, we reviewed the tapes and i pointed them out to him. Knowing my boy as well as i do, i can assure you all, it will be a while before he has any more "lapses".

    At the time I found them to be minor offenses and not worth ruining the good time we were having by jumping on him with both feet. When working with kids you have to balance safety with the good time.

    In this first clip, it is his first time up to bat with the Ruger 44. He had a bad experience last year when we were getting him ready for deer season. We had his older brothers single shot .410 and a Rossi single shot 20 guage at the range. I had strongly warned him against shooting the 20 guage (i had shot it earlier and found the recoil to be decidedly stiff) but he demanded to shoot the 20 guage. So i let him....after bruising his shoulder he didnt want to shoot anymore long guns.:rolleyes: This is why you see/hear his hesitation/fear before the first round down range.
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfp7pWRAGME]Davids first time up with the Ruger .44 mag. - YouTube[/ame]

    This next clip is his 10th thru 15 rounds down range. He wouldnt admit to it, but i think his shoulder was starting to get a bit wore out. :)
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYrdgSNMeVs]David/Ruger M-44 - 2nd time - YouTube[/ame]

    In this next clip, the boy steps up for the first time with my .357 mag. I had loaded some rounds just for him the night before. 125 gr FN sitting on 13 gr of 4227. I knew the 4227 made for little recoil as i had loaded with it before but was unimpressed with the accuracy. As its sighted for 125 gr bullets sitting on 15 gr 2400 the bullets fly high. I LOVE how when he squeezes off the last one (i knew the chamber was empty) there is NO flinch in him!:D
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyG2ZKuH6vs]David 1st up w/ .357 - YouTube[/ame]

    His second try with the .357. Better form and even figured out the POA and scored good hit finally. You can hear him getting frustrated by not scoring good hits. Again, its not his fault. Its the load.
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SZW3kCKLbQ]20111001150526 - YouTube[/ame]

    All in all another great day on the range with my bestest range buddy. He jabbered all the way home about how much of a good time he had. As long as he keeps enjoying the trips he'll keep working at and improving. (thus making his old man happy... i LOVE outings with the family doing things we all enjoy) Hes coming along nicely IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
  2. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    Nicely done!!! The safety issues occur with all new pupils of firearms, but he did very well, and more importantly, he was enjoying himself!!
    Nothing quite as much fun as going to the range and watching your kids have fun, regardless of their age.
    He'll learn the safety. The biggest thing is, he obviously respects the gun from the encounter with the 20 gauge. Now he's got the respect. He simply has to learn the safety fundamentals, and didn't we all?
    He's got a good eye though. You can see he's not flinching, which helps a lot.
    I also got a kick out of Dad being encouraging, and not riding his ass over the beginning issues with shooting.
    Good job, FMJ!! You've got a shooter in the works again!! Give him some time, he'll take that 20 Gauge and show it who is really boss!!
    Biggest thing? Just about every round he fired with the .44 would have meant venison on the table.
    Looked like the .357 scared him a bit until he got used to it, but the kid has guts. He kept on going, and that is the biggest thing.
    I love watching him react to the revolver firing. He jumps, but goes right back for more!!!
    And he was thrilled with the bullseye!!
    Glad dad and son had a good time!! May you have many more.
     

  3. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    He's working hard on his pistol form and doing Good!! I like how in the second pistol video, even when he got excited about the hit in the orange, he still kept the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

    He's doing great! How old is he?
     
  4. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    With the initial hesitation,you can see that he clearly understands the weapon can cause harm not only to what he is aiming at, but himself as well. He learned the hard way but, the fact is that he learned. Some nice shots as well.

    Much respect to you as well. The encouragement from you without "jumping all over him" is great in itself. He seemed very relaxed and much more comfortable after the first couple of shots. I give much credit due to yourself.

    I would like to get my son involved very soon myself. He is only 8 years old, but I fear my own patience. For that, I may wait a little longer. Any advice you can give?
     
  5. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    Get him a Daisy BB gun, or, if you have a gun safe, buy him a .22 rifle and keep it in your safe. Make him clean it and learn all about it, then let him go to the range and do a few 'lap shots' with dad, until you've got him comfortable with it.
    When my kids started solo shooting, for about ten shots I was sitting right next to them, ready to react if they got unsafe with the gun.
    You'll be surprised how quickly kids can learn that stuff. My biggest thing I used? The gallon jug or watermelon show.
    They get used to shooting paper, and don't realize just how powerful and dangerous a gun can be. They see you blast one of them with a large caliber, with no warning about how loud they really are, and they see it explode? They get some instant respect for it.
    Biggest, aside from safety, being patient, and making it fun. Tell him if he can shoot a solid grouping, you'll let him move up to X next.
     
  6. Boyerracing343

    Boyerracing343 New Member Supporter

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    I am jealous. Looks like you and your boy had a great outing. I think it is great that you record him shooting and allow him to watch the videos to help show what he may be doing wrong and to allow him to improve. Nice shooting and thanks for sharing. :D
     
  7. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    I do have a .22 rifle(Sig sauer 522) but i think that may be a bit much for him, weight wise. Its just under 7lbs, not including a loaded 25rd mag and scope. My mother in law has an older Sears & Roebuck .22 bolt action, ive been trying to pry out of her.

    He has no idea that I own any firearms(to my knowledge anyway) and ive always tried to remind him how dangerous they are by explaining what they do, the kind of damage and harm they cause and, ive even went as far as never allowing him to play with toy guns.

    I feel terrible for never allowing it considering being a young boy and, its every little boys dream to play army, cops and robbers, cowboys and so forth. Ive always thought this was a good way to say "hands off", perhaps im wrong. Now after spending much time feeling like a hypocrite, I think its time to learn about respecting a weapon and understanding it "hands on". Like I said earlier, I fear my own patience and im guessing its just being nervous and im sure most of you felt the same when teaching your own children. What is the best way for me to get around this and make myself more comfortable?
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2011
  8. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    Before you reply with a hearty FU, please finish reading my post.

    Step one: Man up.
    What do I mean? Hiding things from the kids that you are fond of, that aren't wrong, may give them an impression that they are wrong. Do you hide that Sunday beer when you're watching the game? Then why are you hiding your affinity for firearms?
    Your dad. A BIG part of your job is to make sure he learns the reality of firearms from you, and not from Stallone and Co. on TV.
    If you have the money, go to get him a cheapo to begin with. Just a little plinker, like a Mossberg (bought one from Wally world for less than a buck thirty, and they have one up there which is actually kid sized!!)
    Don't hide the guns. Make him part of it, let him know you trust him to bring him into the 'big boy' world of guns, but be firm in the rule that you do NOT play with them without you around, and he doesn't try to 'show his friends'.
    Truthfully, if you bought him that little plinker we were discussing, I'd keep it a secret, and in the trunk/behind the seat, where he can't see it, and take him to the range with you.
    You get a positive reaction (he's a boy. He's probably going to be slobbering at all the bangs), then nonchalantly take him to the car and pull HIS gun out, and let him load ONE round at a time until he gets the fundamentals down and you feel safer giving him more.
    And explain to him what you're doing with your weapon, and if he wants to help, and it's nothing dangerous, (loading a mag), then let him.
    Again, do the lap shot as well. But just relax and have fun.
    Little guy is eight, don't act like he's eighteen or eight weeks.
    Have fun with him and enjoy the day. That's the biggest thing to remember.
    Just don't forget to have your video camera when he gets HIS gun. Trust me, you'll never want to forget that expression.
     
  9. fmj

    fmj New Member

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    The youngest shooting his "Cricket" for the last time... The cricket is a single shot, bolt action .22 lr.
    [​IMG]

    My boy is 12. I started him out around 8 with little cricket seen in the above pic. Hes outgrown it. (that pic was shot last year) Last year he started with the "Real" guns.
    The pic below was taken the same day as the pic above...Shooting my grandpas/dads/my Win. 61. It was this day he moved into "Man sized" guns and never looked back. If you look in the background you can see the cricket and just how small it actually is.
    [​IMG]

    As Ben pointed out, DO NOT EVER hide it from him or any kid. Kids are curious, that curiosity WILL lead to trouble and even tragedy!!! TEACH him!! Let him shoot. Take that curiosity out of it. Thus avoiding tragedy. If you and and your child start shooting together and hes enjoying the time, he will want to do it again. If he KNOWS that if he plays with the guns in a non prescribed manner, that he will lose that fun time....i doubt he will risk it.

    As far as your patience...dont push it and dont expect much. Hes a noob, he doesnt know and is looking to you to teach. baby steps. Take it a bit at a time, TEACH...he'll learn. But overall, make it FUN.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2011
  10. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I had my son handling my Mosin Nagant, and Smith earlier today myself before I read these posts. We've done this many times, just to keep him handling some type of gun. We don't even have a .22 or even a BB gun for him, he shoots those belonging to family members.

    He now knows how to open the cylinder, unload and load it, and also how to do a basic field strip of the Mosin Nagant. (remove bolt and magazine innards)
     
  11. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    Thank you both for the input. I appreciate it greatly.
    Im sure I do have to "man up" to this, its just difficult because he is my first child and im still new to the game, that protective side of me has some difficulty opening up a bit still.
    Ive had to learn about firearms on my own and, I really had no idea how to even begin teaching him except for the fact that guns do kill and they are not toys. Luckily the one way I did not have to worry abut him learning was the "Stallone & co" way with tv. we are always active outdoors with camping, hiking and such. He doesn't watch tv often but somewhere along the line he learned to use the "ratings" and I always see him checking to see if the program is PG, G,PG13 and so on. He refuses to watch anything not in his rating. Lol. Hes a bright kid but sometimes loses focus easily and that is what makes me nervous. I guess that is my fear with this. I guess I dont want to see him improperly handling something and myself "freak out" and scare him. I also dont really have anyone locally that can give me the guidance to teach him. Your information has been helpful and i will take it all into thought but I will also do some more research and planning before taking that step.

    I do like the idea of having him clean the rifle as a start, letting him get a feel I guess you can say. Should I remove the bolt just a precaution or allow him to see the rifle in its entirety?

    Once again..thanks for the input.
     
  12. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    Well, as Dad, you're the one that will best know this, but decide if it is time to give the young man a gun of his own.
    Just make sure you don't hide them, (that doesn't, obviously, mean don't lock them up), but rather than teaching them as something that is to be feared, they are tools, and something that is to be respected and not played with.
    I wish you and your son great luck and many great times! Please keep us informed of his journey into the world if firearms.
     
  13. UrbanNinja

    UrbanNinja New Member

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    Ben I will gladly keep everyone updated. FMJ I apologize for hijacking your thread. I just figured this would be the place where all of the other fathers and yourself would have great advice to help me out.

    Its funny that for thousands of years father Have taught their sons to use many forms of weapons for survival and recreation alike. Yet somehow when its my turn, I grow a vagina. Lol
     
  14. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    If you want him to learn to respect it, do not transfer your fears to him. He's smart, you said so yourself. Never freak. Stay close, but not so close as to smother him.
    And let him clean the gun with the bolt. Teach him how to handle it as if it were whole, and always instill the 'always loaded' mind in him.
    Plus, that will help you relax more, with him operating with an unloaded weapon.
    Just relax. You've learned how to handle a firearm. Hell, if you're nervous, sign him up for a local 'introduction class', and go with him, and make it bonding time for dad and son.
     
  15. fmj

    fmj New Member

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    LOL! i dont think it s hijack at all. I also think that if you want/need help this IS the place to ask.

    Kids are sponges man. They soak up stuff too easily at times. Go to the local gun shop, or print off from the internet the 10 commandments of firearms safety and drill them into his head. Find a few good clips from youtube showing the exploding water mellon and such. You guys go camping? PERFECT time to do some range work...thats when my eldest son got most of his training. We would go camping, canoe and shoot.

    But again, just do it. Dont be a vag, an over protective girly man. You live in America, where guns are a part of life. Eventually he is going to encounter firearms, with or without you around. Teach him, prepare him how to act appropriately when he does come in contact. Teach him to open a bolt, pump action, lever action, cylinder, slide, drop the magazine etc and to check the chamber visually. Its something i have drilled into my kids and the other kids i have worked with. "NO gun is safe until YOU have PERSONALLY checked the chamber to make sure it is empty and even then no gun is safe unless that action is OPEN." it goes with with "Treat every gun as if it were loaded."

    Its not difficult....just get started and feel your way thru. Its a learning process for both of you. If you need help, we're here for you. I take teaching our next generation very seriously. If we dont, who will? A bleeding heart, mamby pamby, pants wetting liberal?? Them treaching "when you see a gun go hide, find some else to save you?" Thats an even more scarey thought than ANY scenario i can think of happening on the range!

    Take your time. Make it fun for BOTH of you. You'll both learn together and make memories that he will carry for a lifetime and be telling his kids when your gone. When you're old and gray (like me) you'll look back on the pics and "remember when". I wished i had more pics and video of the times i took the eldest and his buiddies....but we were even more dirt poor back then.:(

    As far as locking up your guns....well essentially thats your call. But I personally dont lock my guns away from my kids. I lock them in the safe away from those that would break into the house and steal. (many will take issue with this last part) All my kids have been trained to the safe use of the guns and I have loaded guns in certain places through out the house. Should a goblin decide to break in while i am not here they will have a rude awakening awaiting them.;) The wife shoots better than i do...and EVERYONE in this house shoots the 1911 and well! There is going to be serious dessension in the ranks over that gun when i die! As far as other kids coming into the house, well we dont have a lot of other kids running in and out...and those that do have been to the range and thru my safety course.
     
  16. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    You have two comments I'd like to address, if you don't mind (and I agree with your post.)


    Worse case scenario is Junior grows up to BE one of those pants wetting sissy boys who see a gun and call 911 because they think they're all evil and only made to kill people.
    Ignorance is a deadly weapon. Combat it with knowledge, and your son will not grow up to support the Brady Bill and their ilk, but will fight for his rights, and his son's rights, to own firearms.
    Otherwise, we face the opportunity to have our family heirloom weapons melted down to make medals for knobslobbering retards who confuse cosmetics "OMG An AZZAULT WEEPOON!!!" and a real threat "What's that gentleman doing with that old Tommy gun?"

    My guns have never been in a cage while I'm home. Kids were raised, much like yours, to the point they didn't pay any attention to them, and they were pretty adamant that no one else messed with them.
    I really added that more to help UrbanNinja feel a little more comfortable. When he relaxes and realizes his son isn't going to treat them like a squirt gun, he may actually relax some more.
    He's got an opportunity of a lifetime. I am envious of the chance to start that journey yet again, but at my age I am NOT interested in any more children.
     
  17. fmj

    fmj New Member

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    HELL NO i dont mind! I certainly dont have the market cornered here. Any and all opinions are welcome. Hell, i might even learn something i can use.

    Ignorance is the deadliest of weapons and the ONLY cure is knowledge!!

    "Desensitization"...Kids are curious critters, if you hide them, they become curious and feel the need to explore. curiosity killed the cat so to speak. Leave them out and allow them time to become used to and use them you take away that curiosity.

    AMEN to that!! I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!! I am ready for G-Babies and the whole "Spoil 'em rotten and send them home" thing. Plus, the added bonus of the joy of watching my G-babies drive my kids as nuts as they drove me and enjoying the "parents revenge" thing. :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
  18. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    I've already crossed the grandpa bridge. Sadly, my oldest made damn sure he burned every bridge with his exes, thus, we don't get to see our grandkids.
    YET. We are constantly offering to take them. (She is adamantly anti-gun. Causes us problems.)
     
  19. fmj

    fmj New Member

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    AHHH a new challenge worthy of your talents!! One of my greatest joys is the breaking down of and teaching the anti-gunners.

    The hardest part is getting thru all the BS dogma that has been drilled into them. i.e. "Only thing guns are good for is killing" etc. Be patient, deal with and be prepared for the screaming and crying. Its part of the learning curve. When you kick the basis, the pedestal, of ones entire existence out from under them with basic irrefutable fact it is to be expected.

    I have no less then 6 success stories (broken anti gun liberals) to my credit! Its difficult, but can be done. The facts and figures are on our side. With time and proper application of common sense and proper thought process this can be achieved.
     
  20. BenLuby

    BenLuby New Member

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    I am quite comfortable dealing with the Anti-gunner crowd. She, however, is absolutely immune to common sense. It's almost a super power.
    I did make the mistake of telling her once if they ever made ignorance a misdemeanor she was going to get a life sentence.