Vermont The new Holy Land.....

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by cpttango30, Jan 17, 2011.

  1. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member


    Vermont State Rep. Fred Maslack has read the Second Amendment to

    the U.S. Constitution, as well as Vermont 's own Constitution very
    carefully, and his strict interpretation of these documents is popping
    some eyeballs in New England and elsewhere.

    Maslack recently proposed a bill to register "non-gun-owners" and

    require them to pay a $500 fee to the state. Thus Vermont would

    become the first state to require a permit for the luxury of going about
    unarmed and assess a fee of $500 for the privilege of not owning a gun.

    Maslack read the "militia" phrase of the Second Amendment as not only
    the right of the individual citizen to bear arms, but as a clear mandate
    to do so. He believes that universal gun ownership was advocated by the

    Framers of the Constitution as an antidote to a "monopoly of force" by

    the government as well as criminals. Vermont 's constitution states
    explicitly that "the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of
    themselves and the State" and those persons who are "conscientiously
    scrupulous of bearing arms" shall be required to "pay such equivalent.."

    Clearly, says Maslack, Vermonters have a constitutional obligation to
    arm themselves, so that they are capable of responding to "any situation
    that may arise."

    Under the bill, adults who choose not to own a firearm would be required
    to register their name, address, Social Security Number, and driver's
    license number with the state. "There is a legitimate government
    interest in knowing who is not prepared to defend the state should they
    be asked to do so," Maslack says.

    Vermont already boasts a high rate of gun ownership along with the
    least restrictive laws of any state ... it's currently the only state
    that allows a citizen to carry a concealed firearm without a permit.
    This combination of plenty of guns and few laws regulating them has
    resulted in a crime rate that is the third lowest in the nation.

    "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the
    system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

    It'll never happen, but it's a good statement of the Second Amendment's intent.

    BTW, "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the
    system, but too early to shoot the bastards." is a quote from Claire Wolf's book "The Freedom Outlaw's Handbook". ;)

  3. dnthmn2004

    dnthmn2004 New Member

    Interesting. I don't think that will ever happen, but its interesting none the less. Almost makes me want to move 20 miles north.
  4. Yunus

    Yunus Active Member

    I can just imagine how bad this would backfire when the first idiot who has no clue how to fire a gun decides, I'll just buy a handgun so I don't have to pay the fee, then shoots some innocent kid accidentally because he has no idea how to operate the deadly weapon he just bought.

    Also I wonder what this guys stance is on Obamacare. He seems to support forcing citizens to make commercial purchases or be fined. Something that people seem to have taken issue with when it's insurance.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  5. dunerunner

    dunerunner New Member

    Personal responsibility, Yunus. If you drive, you have to learn how and the rules of the road. Same thing applies to weapons, learn the rules and how to use them safely.

    Same thing would happen if everyone were required to own a chainsaw!
  6. buckhuntr

    buckhuntr Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    Something similar has actually been done before, in Kennesaw, Georgia. Kennesaw gun ordinance
    Kennesaw did make allowances for objectors, and no penalty was imposed, but it was still the law for every household to maintain a firearm.:D
  7. orangello

    orangello New Member

    Ya know, some of them yankees ain't all bad. ;):D
  8. bkt

    bkt New Member

    Generally, I'm opposed to requiring people to own firearms. Suddenly, one's right becomes compulsory. That's a form of tyranny.

    But if Vermont passes legislation to establish county-wide militia groups and all able-bodied people between 18 and 45 (or whatever the age delimiters are) to participate, then fining people for refusal to participate might make more sense. Of course, opponents would point out that there is no compelling need for a militia when the National Guard and LE exists.

    Personally, I would like to see the establishment of county militias across the nation. But I would also like to see a draw-down of the standing military and a pull-out from Iraq and Afghanistan as well as an effort to recall military stationed on bases overseas. (It's a complicated issue, I know. It wouldn't be quick or easy.)
  9. TimL2952

    TimL2952 New Member

    I used the National Guard point for my school debate on gun control...Since the National Guard is Government regulated it technically isn't a Militia...a Militia is an organized group of armed civilians led by other armed civilians to protect the welfare of the country.

    I think voluntary militia is a great need to force anyone while we have one of the most advanced and largest armed force on the planet.
  10. Yunus

    Yunus Active Member

    Which is a great reason not to mandate that people own chainsaws :) The driving example is fair only if people are forced to pay a special tax if they don't own a car.

    I like this man's intention I just think his methods are more for show and on one hand I applaud that, it's also an exercise in futility.
  11. orangello

    orangello New Member

    That sounds like a good summary commentary on the failed United States Government to me.
  12. bigtiller

    bigtiller New Member


    Not the only state, Arizona and Alaska also require no permit to CCW
  13. dog2000tj

    dog2000tj New Member

    Thankfully I will not have to pay the $500 penalty if this ever gets enacted ;) I try to keep aware of everyone around me while I'm out and about. If VT does have such a high number of firearms carriers they re doing a very good job of concealing it.

    It will be a while and lots of practice before I'm comfortable enough to carry though.
  14. AcidFlashGordon

    AcidFlashGordon New Member

    Which puts you eminently more above those [​IMG] who won't touch a gun because they know it's an EVIL thing that will kill everyone around it (with no outside interference) and needs to be avoided like the plague.
  15. spittinfire

    spittinfire Active Member Supporter

    The state took all my information for wanting to own a gun why can't it take the same information for those who don't?
    It will never happen but I like the point that is being made.
  16. oneeyedmac

    oneeyedmac New Member

    Sorry to argue, but the US military is nowhere near the world's largest. When you include national gaurd (or the equivelent) and reserves the US has the 8th largest armed forces with about 2.5 million members. We are dwarfed behind Russia with 21.5 million, N Korea 9.5 million, S Korea 8.7 million, Vietnam 5.5M, India 4.8M, China 3.5M and Iran 2.9M.

    My son is a US Marine and I'm willing to wager we have the best overall training available to our people than most of the rest of the world though and we are very efficient at killing our enemies.

    Remember, the US is a large country by land mass but empty compared to Asia. We have 310M people, China and India have over a billion people each.

    We have a larger military than Iceland though, they have 0 in a permanent military and 130 people in reserve.
  17. Johnny45

    Johnny45 New Member

    Oh, yeah, just what I've been telling y'all along...Vermont rocks! At least it would if we weren't being invaded by liberal rich Flatlanders.
    Anyway, I didn't even realize we were the LAST permit-free state; last I heard we were one of two. It's getting worse every year, and all the aforesaid rich liberal out-of-staters-in-residence are not generally pro-gun. I know I don't plan on registering to carry a damn .38 in my car anytime soon.
    Interesting's perfectly legal to carry a loaded .45 in your car, provided you tell the cop when/if you get pulled over, and hand it to him until your finished. BUT, you MAY NOT carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle! That counts whether it's a side-by-side 12-gauge or a tacticalized AR-15. It seems pretty obvious when they made that rule, they were concerned with protecting the deer population from those tempted to shoot them out of the car/truck windows (which is also illegal!) Apparently the issue of someone actually shooting a police officer with their loaded handgun hadn't come up yet. And as far as I know, it still hasn't! I did hear about some nut who shot a cop with his hunting shotgun during a shoot-out in his apartment, but that's not considered normal.
    Anyway, the several times I've had to deal with police, the fact that I had a pair of loaded handguns sitting on the seat next to me didn't seem to faze them much. In fact, I've twice ended up having friendly chats about our respective collections and favorite shooting ranges while wait for things to finish. No negative vibe at all.
    Of course, if you're a felon, or in a public building or school, things change. But it's nice not having that stigma that you seem to get in many states.

    As for the article about the Vermont politician wanting to register non-gun-owners...I couldn't say for 100%, but I personally didn't read that as a SERIOUS proposition. I think it was just a snipe at the fools who want to register gun-owners, etc. If nothing else, the fact that we gun owners aren't any more happy about registering/penalizing NON-gun-owners says a lot about us vs them. Although I inwardly chuckle thinking of all the SUV-driving, LL Bean adorned, boutique-shopping Mass-natives-become "Real Vermonters(gag!)" having to pay to not own a gun and to register themselves, I couldn't go through with it. If nothing else, there is a certain number of poor-yet-honestly hippie types who just couldn't afford it, and would be absolutely loathe to register themselves on a Govn't list for ANYthing. They are the ones the rich types copy when they go to anti-war rallies, etc, and yet I don't mind them, because they actually seem to believe what they claim to. Impractical? Certainly, but they do produce a lot of excellent musicians and artists, and there are blurred lines at the edges of all the "social classes" in this state. I'm met hippies that grew up as farmers and dig country music, and plenty of blue-collar anti-war folks as well.
    Hell, I love this state...I just wish it wasn't so fashionable to "move to the country". You should see the tourist-pandering ads and souveniers, etc...god, they make your stomach turn. Came and ski all you want; bring lots of money (we sure need it). But stop making your summer homes along our nice quiet roads, and trying to change our laws and cities! If you wanted to get out of Mass so bad, why do you have to try and change us into a copy of them?
    Anyway, Vermont and Texas...two of the best states in this nation. Both were independent republics once. I think that has a message behind it.
  18. Johnny45

    Johnny45 New Member

    LOL, now THAT'S the truth! Great idea, well intended and inspired, and yet it seems to have died off and left a false image of itself behind. I think probably somewhere around 1865...when the Federal Govn't took control. Abe Lincoln was a great man (one of my most-admired, anyway), but there's no doubt that those years were the birth of modern America. I think the real end was when the war was too late after it began.
    Even so, I wonder how different it might have been if some Complete *** hadn't thought it a great idea to shoot him for guiding the country safely through the nastiest war we've ever fought, before or since.
  19. bkt

    bkt New Member

    Vermont is a fantastic state AND it's nearby to me making it a viable location to move to. Unfortunately, lefties from New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and elsewhere left their states (often due to high taxes they voted for) and now they're flooding Vermont and New Hampshire. They'll probably piss and moan about the lax gun-control laws, lack of welfare and other hand-out programs, and screw up those states, too. It's up to the natives to keep these leftist assclowns in check.
  20. barilef

    barilef New Member

    Mandatory gun ownership in VT

    I wouldn't mind someof this conservative thinking in NY. But the 2ndA was at a time when mlitias were the only STATE forces available that could counter invasions; there was no Federal army until the Civil War. In fact, perhaps militias should be reinstituted, so that we can bring back some state's rights and limit federal powers (and army).