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Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by zaitsev44, Sep 2, 2012.
If it were for sale, how much would you pay for Vassily Zaitsev's M91/30 PU sniper?
I'd probably go a couple of hundred bucks, probably up to a grand. It's not like it was that great of a piece of weaponry, but it's history makes it interesting from a conversation standpoint.
I would think the rifle would sell in excess of $10,000.00, probably a great deal more.
The rifle I would rather have would be that of Simo Hayha, the most successful sniper of all time, and with no scope at all.
Simo has the highest body count, but I would not consider him the "most successful". He was shooting in an almost perfect killing ground, all he had to do was be able to hit targets inside of about 200-250 yards.
But I would bid on his rifle too, but no way I would go $10K for a rifle that couldn't hold 1 MOA past 100 yards.
No arguments. Stalingrad was street to street, at best.
My statement is that I don't consider Simo to be the most successful, and I would include any sniper that hunted in urban combat to be in the same ballpark.
Simo knew the land, knew the landscape, and had targets advancing on him. The perfect storm for sniping.
Contrast that against Hathcock and Mawhinney who had to go "creeping" for a shot, I would say the advantage was clearly with the urban shooters.
Have you read any of the books by The Chandler Brothers on snipers through the years? Amazing reads, with some seriously great stories told from people who were there.
I respect your opinion, and don't wish to pick a fight over the issue, but...
With all due respect to you and to Carlos Hathcock, who I feel was a great American Hero. (and treated like crap at the end of his career) Hayha sent over 500 Russians to their maker in 100 days, with an unscoped rifle. Being familiar with the killing ground was certainly helpful in surviving, but the man had to be one hell of a shot and be great at concealment. Your point about a target rich environment is well taken, however, a target rich environment in the sniping business also means a lot of people are shooting back at you.
I based my assement of him being the most successful sniper on his number of kills; the business of sniping in the first place.
Co-opting the original post, but in the same vein, I wonder what Bonnie and Clyde's personal weapons will go for. I believe they are up for auction this month.
Completely agree and no offense at all. I could talk sniping and shooters all day with a well informed member. *respect*
Simo did more than anyone else has done, in a shorter period of time, than any shooter in history. Hands down, he was great.
But he was hunting on his own home ground, in FREEZING conditions where he could literally see the steam when a man relieved himself, and he hit a generous portion of everything he aimed at.
Hands down he survived in harsh conditions and did so against very serious troops looking to kill him.
But they were EVERYWHERE and they were as exposed as anyone force in history that was being pushed forward by "commanders" who didn't care about the lives of their troops, only the ground they could report as "taken".
Now compare that to having to leave the comfort and safety of your own base, creep and crawl through booby-trapped and unfamiliar terrain, looking for an enemy that frequently hunted in very small cliques, with few supplies and no rules of engagement.
I am not Simo wasn't great. He was awesome. I just don't consider him the most successful "sniper" as I do a really advantageous shooter who used every tool available to him.
But I love the discussion and your opinion. *respect*
I would go to about $12,000 for Zaitsev's, and about $10,000 for Simo's.
A new one. How about General Patton's two ivory handled Colt and Smith&Wesson?
A gazillion Rubles.
I raise you two-gazillion Rubles!
For Patton's pistols, $500,000 each for a total of $1 million
You would have to steal them from the Infantry Museum in Ft. Benning. The guards there look like they would shoot you over those revolvers.
I meant if they were for sale (check the first post), I wouldn't get shot for 2 guns of my life and the lives of this around me didn't depend on it.