USING SHOTGUN PARTS

Discussion in 'DIY Projects' started by Bandicoot, Sep 26, 2020.

  1. Bandicoot

    Bandicoot New Member

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    This is my 1st time on the forum and I looked for info pertaining to my project but didn't find what I needed. I have read over the NFA and ATF regulations but I still am not sure, so here is my question. I have a 20 gauge barreled receiver. What I am wanting to do is turn it into a .357 pistol that will look similar to the Remington XP-100. My plan is to cut the barrel off
    right in front of the chamber. Then I will use a 20 ga to .357 chamber adapter to convert it.
    At this point it will be a one hand fired pistol after I fit the action to my frame. Problem is that if the chamber adapter is removed it will still fire a 20 gauge cartridge. Don't want to do that but is that a problem since there are legal shotgun pistols. How about permanently attaching the adapter so it can't be removed or modifying the chamber, for example boring it straight and cutting interior threads to accept a threaded pistol barrel. How about if I just use the receiver and make my own bushing to accept the pistol barrel?
    Bottom line is what would I need to do to keep it all legal?
    Don't think I would like prison life.
     
  2. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Bandicoot
    IMO That is a serious problem for you to do that. It was bought as a shotgun so anything under an 18" Barrel is illegal. Shotgun Pistols are documented by the Dealer as a Pistol at time of purchase on the Federal 4473 as a Pistol. And they are manufactured by the company as a pistol.
    For example if an AR-15 Receiver, or whole weapon is listed anywhere on a 4473 as a Pistol it is always a pistol. If it is listed on the 4473 as a Rifle it is always a Rifle.
    That is why now days if you buy an AR-15 Stripped Receiver. The Dealer will put it on the 4473 as OTHER! So they can be a Pistol or a Rifle. Technically it then becomes what ever you use it for to build being an AR-15 Pistol or and AR-15 Rifle.
    So I hope this clarifies the issue.
    Welcome to the FTF! Have you went to the Introduction Section and introduced yourself?

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  3. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If it started life as a long arm, legally it will always be a long arm.
     
  4. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Apply for a short barreled shotgun permit
     
  5. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    But the other issue is he is also changing the caliber of the modified weapon.
    I could see the Feds looking at this as being classified as the Manufacture of a firearm!
    Of course a Federal Firearms Manufacturer's License is only $2500.00 for the term of the License.
    IMO Bottom Line! Even having an FFL, I would not touch this project with a Ten Foot Pole!;)
    To many possible issues!:eek:

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    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
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  6. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Aside from the legal ramifications you can get 20 gauge to 357 adapters longer than 3". I have seen shotguns permanently converted to rifles using a welded adapter which did not make a lot of sense to me. I have a 20 gauge with several adapters and the handy part is I can change calibers by merely changing adapters. If you put a pistol grip on it the barrel would have to be at least 18" and the overall length at least 26" which on a single shot will mean a barrel longer than 18". It sounds like you are looking for a Thompson Contender.
    Chaszel -
     
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  7. Bandicoot

    Bandicoot New Member

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    Thanks to all of you. I am of course familiar with Thompsons and xp-100s etc. The whole point is to do a project. I used to have access to a machine shop where I could have started
    with bar stock and fabricated my own receiver. Now I don't have access so I was looking for a shortcut. I also could buy a new short action Rem. 700 receiver and register it as a pistol and go from there. But you are talking big bucks just for the receiver and that kind of defeats my purpose. So basically I gather that being in such a gray area, I could still get in trouble, so just make everything except the adapter from scratch. I could also go another route. I also have a Colt .357 7-1/2" revolver barrel that I could use. And I could start from bar stock and chamber the receiver then screw the Colt barrel into that. It would be a bolt action with the chamber in the receiver instead of the barrel, sort of like a revolver with out the gap. Since the receiver is considered the firearm and it never was a firearm, I should be able to register it as a pistol and be good to go..right?
    I may be able to get our local Technical school to do the machining for the receiver.
    As far as a project, I would rather buy a small mill/lathe combo and make it from scratch than buy a finished receiver. The whole point for me is to basically build it myself.
    Thanks again for the legal advice and other thoughts. I will ere on the side of caution and forget about a used receiver. I don't have a lathe now so I was looking for a shortcut.
    Thanks again Bandicoot.
     
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  8. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    Why would you not chamber the barrel?
    With a straight case like the .357 you could do it without a chamber reamer if you wanted (and had a lathe).
    In you original plan you would have had no rifling, which makes it a shotgun, no matter what it is designed to shoot. Unrifled pistols are not a standard legal gun.
    And having a huge bolt made for a 20 ga shooting a small 357 would a waste and difficult to make an extractor function.
    Start from scratch. Use the 357 barrel you have but chamber the barrel (there are many reasons that this is way it is always done). Design your bolt sized to the cartridge you want to shoot.
     
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  9. Rifling82

    Rifling82 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    ^^^ I was thinking the exact same thing
     
  10. BillDeShivs

    BillDeShivs Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think, if you seriously look into it, that changing the barrel PERMANENTLY to a pistol cartridge would be legal. For example- an unregistered H&R Handygun .410 pistol can be made legal by: rifling the barrel (it's under .50 cal.), or installing a rifled barrel in pistol/rifle cartridges.
    Why anyone would want to do this with a clunky 20 ga. shotgun action is beyond me, though.
     
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  11. Bandicoot

    Bandicoot New Member

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  12. Bandicoot

    Bandicoot New Member

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    Ok a couple of things. The original post was using a fully rifled chamber adapter from Chaszel 11” perhaps cut back to 8”. And as Billdeshivs said, permanently attaching it where it could not be removed it would no longer be a shotgun.
    As far as the receiver, without a lathe it would have been easier to let the receiver and 4” of barrel hold the rifled adapter. I won’t go that route tough be cause of advice already received here. As far as a chunky receiver though
    The Rem XP-100 is built on a Rem. 700 receiver....I think.
    As far as chambering the receiver goes I already have a
    Short non rifled adapter that is of course already chambered. I could machine it straight and thread it on the outside the same thread as the Colt barrel that I have. Then I would cut it to the length of a revolver cylinder. Then I could thread the homemade receiver to accept the chamber and barrel. Or
    I could simply chamber the receiver.
    Wolf precision is now making
    Rifle barrels with separate chambers.
    “First ever type of rifle in the world with the chamber (ACE) made completely separate of the barrel”
    Why would I do this anyway?
    Because I’m not too sure about
    Chambering a revolver barrel.
    If I did do that I would probably just chamber it for
    .38 special. Even +p would only be half the pressure. Does anyone think you could safely chamber a revolver barrel?
    Again I appreciate all of the input. Even if I never get to it,
    It’s great to exchange ideas.
     
  13. Bandicoot

    Bandicoot New Member

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    Ok a couple of things. The original post was using a fully rifled chamber adapter from Chaszel 11” perhaps cut back to 8”. And as Billdeshivs permanently attaching it where it could not be removed it would no longer be a shotgun.
    As far as the receiver, without a lathe it would have been easier to let the receiver and 4” of barrel hold the rifled adapter. I won’t go that route tough be cause of advice already received here. As far as a chunky receiver though
    The Rem XP-100 is built on a Rem. 700 receiver....I think.
    As far as chambering the receiver goes I already have a
    Short adapter that is of course already chambered. I could machine it straight and thread it on the outside the same thread as the Colt barrel that I have. Then I would cut it to the length of a revolver cylinder. Then I could thread the homemade receiver to accept the chamber and barrel. Or
    I could simply chamber the receiver.
    Wolf precision is producing rifles with separate chambers.
    “First ever type of rifle in the world with the chamber (ACE) made completely separate of the barrel”.
    It was just an idea anyway.
    I love the idea of chambering the barrel that I already have. My question is does anyone think it is Ok to chamber a revolver barrel? Once it is screwed into the receiver it has pressure support but is it strong enough past the threads. I think it would be but would like some input. Again it is a Colt 357 revolver barrel. I may never get to this but it is great to share ideas.
     
  14. BillDeShivs

    BillDeShivs Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Regardless what you do, if you make it a pistol, it HAS to be rifled under federal law.
     
  15. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    As Bill noted- no matter what caliber, if it is shorter than 18 inches it will need to be rifled- otherwise you have a short barreled shotgun (Yes, even if it shoots 38s). It it started life as a shotgun, and you make a pistol, the ATF will pee down your neck. That is making a weapon FROM a shotgun- and they don't care what caliber. A virgin receiver is- as already noted- an OTHER. Makes a difference only to lawyers. The H&R Handi-gun was never a shotgun. Yes, it fired a shotshell- but shotguns have a shoulder stock. Says so right in the Federal definition of a shotgun.

    And I will mention- the SAAMI chamber pressure of a .357 magnum is 35,000 psi. The SAAMI chamber pressure for a 12 g is 11,500 psi. And that pressure is not just OUT, it is also BACK- against the bolt. Which is why you can't just slap a rifle barrel on a top break shotgun.
     
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  16. BillDeShivs

    BillDeShivs Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are, of course, correct about the pistol/shotgun thing.
     
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  17. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    Your question should be put in a letter and sent to the BATF for a written answer. Anything less is an invitation for disaster. You won’t be able to show this thread to a prosecutor or judge and say, “well these folks told me it was Ok”.

    Unlike popular misconception, the BATF folks are very professional and incredibly helpful. They job is not to entrap you but to help you avoid a problem down the line. Give them a call.
     
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  18. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In order to get an answer on legality, you would need to spend far more on a firearms attorney then the gun would ever be worth. And then, if he is wrong, you could still end up in jail.

    In my opinion, the whole proposition is hairbrained. Sell the shotgun and buy a pistol.
     
  19. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    I can certainly understand wanting to make something. And I can certainly understand wanting to use as many existing parts as possible to make something.
    The only trouble is that our wonderful federal (and some states) government has so many unconstitutional laws pertaining to what you want to make.
    This is nothing bad on you. It is all bad on past and present elected officials.
     
  20. Bandicoot

    Bandicoot New Member

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    OK, I think this thread is about long enough because some things are getting lost.
    Forget my original question. After all of the comments and advice I am not going to
    use any kind of pre-manufactured breech. I also am not going to use a rifled shotgun adapter. I am going to take Hiwall's suggestion and chamber the Colt revolver barrel
    for 38 special. Then I will take a piece of solid stock and fabricate my own receiver.
    It will either be bolt action or a falling block of my own design. Hiwall should appreciate that! This way I am perfectly legal. I can never sell or give it away but I'm OK with that.
    I could only do that with a $2500 manufacturing license and I have no desire to do that.
    I don't have to, but I can also register it as a pistol and be even more safe.
    Thanks for all for the advice.
     
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