Using a 30 Carbine as a civilian fighting rifle.

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by locnload, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. locnload

    locnload Member

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    I have an Israeli Arms Industries copy of the 30 Carbine. I bought it several years ago to have as a defensive rifle because it was much less exspensive than an AR 15/M4 style rifle. I was able to find several 20 and 30 round magazines for it at good prices and it seemed to meet my needs. I eventually was able to buy a Rock River Arms AR15 with hopes of getting into 3 Gun competitions and maybe taking a serious Rifle class or two but just never found the time and money to do it. The older I get the less likely I am to keep up with the "young guns" in classes or competition, so I sold my AR and have gone back to thinking of my little 30 Carbine as an adequate defensive rifle. I know many small LE agencies use them or at least did, as patrol rifles because of they're affordability. But I have not seen a lot of talk about using them in the capacity of a civilian fighting rifle. Worthwhile modifications, operating techniques, and training methods to get the most out of the gun. Anyone have any ideas?:confused:
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  2. HockaLouis

    HockaLouis New Member

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    By "civilian fighting" I presume u mean defense. The M-1 Carbine is a really, really, great and accurate pistol.

    As a rifle they are small, light, very handy, fun as heck to shoot, historic and just cool. If in good condition, and so are the mags, they are pretty reliable. Not the worst choice though range and ammo itself is limited in effectiveness compared to more modern rounds and in factory (and even reload) options. Buy factory in case quantity to save money and have the perspective that "what u have on hand is all you're ever going to be able to get your hands on ever again."

    Use new GI mags -- plenty around. Get a bayonet (there are also GI bolt-on flash-arrestors, 15-rnd mag pouches that fit around stock, 30-round mag clips...). Practice using simple arm well.

    You're good to go.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012

  3. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    The .30 Carbines are light, handy rifles. They are underpowered by rifle standards. They are severly limited in useful range. The ammo choices are FMJ/Ball that sucks for all but head shots. Soft point that has almost no expansion. Hollow point that also has almost no expansion. Hand loading with the Speer "Plinker" bullet may give better terminal ballistics.

    If it was my only choice, I would make it work and stockpile many mags and ammo. Count on 3-4 shots per adversary.
     
  4. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    they are fast light and you can get rapid hits accurately due to the minimal recoil. kinda like an ar15 but weaker.

    its on par with with the 357sig pistol cartridge in power levels with similar range restriction.

    the issues you have with the 30carbine is sheer age. or in your case a proprietary copy that GI parts may or may not work in. all of the actual 30M1 rifles are ancient and little to no spares in good condition exist. if you spend the time money and effort to rehab one to like new condition they are superb short range defensive rifles. but doing that and you easily exceed the cost of a decent 16inch milspec ar15 carbine.

    ive been working on rehabing one for a number of years but its difficult at best to find good barrels and parts of late. its all pretty much dried up and must of the M1carbine stuff is pretty junky leftovers or super pricey like new parts.

    its sad such a fun easy to use gun hasnt made a come back. they werent expensive to make even by ww2 standards.
     
  5. TekGreg

    TekGreg Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I called the .30 carbine I used to own the most fun rifle I ever owned! While it's true that refurbishing one is now a nightmare, if you have one that is straight-shooting and reliable there is no reason that it can't be used for the relatively short range duty of home defense. Use new ammo for the purpose of self-defense for the sake of reliability, and new magazines for the same reason, but there's no reason not to use surplus magazines and ammo for range practice. Your new ammunition choices are limited unless you reload, so shot placement becomes crucial.

    Anyone considering cheap/surplus guns for defense should make sure that the weapon is perfectly functional and make sure there is more ammo on the market than anyone would need for 1,000 years! the cheap surplus practice ammo should let you do several hundred rounds a month so that you are better at shot placement when it counts. Having a gunsmith look the gun over and give it a clean bill of health would be a good idea as well in case you have a shooting incident that calls the safety of the weapon into question in a court of law.

    Remember the old saying: "Beware the man that owns one gun." If you know your weapon inside out, know how it shoots and it's the only one you practice with, you'll be a deadly shot no matter what type of gun you choose nor the ammunition it fires.

    LocnLoad, you asked about modifications and training: I wouldn't change the gun too much, other than lengthening or shortening the stock to fit your body (many owners add a recoil pad for length - it certainly doesn't need one for recoil!), or possibly bolting on a flashlight or laser, if needed. The .30 is a modern, semi-auto carbine and any DVDs or courses that train carbine techniques will apply to yours. Don't be intimidated if everyone has an AR - it's not the only reliable carbine made! :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  6. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    I had a couple of Inlands and they were great. I changed out all the springs and kept some springs for backup. .30 Carbine ammo is kind of expensive out here and not always readily available. Stock up online and you should be good to go.
     
  7. Threetango

    Threetango Audentes Fortuna Iuvat Supporter

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    A little bit off topic but related.

    Our unit issued some M1 Carbines to the ARVN's in Vietnam and every time I read about them it reminds me of a saying we had.
    Goes like this.
    "Want to buy an ARVN weapon, never fired and only dropped once" :D
     
  8. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Personal observation, it might be better than a sharp stick but only if it has a bayonet. I have bounced the rounds off of a 55 gallon steel drum at 50 yards. My brother got rid of his in Korea after the first time he used it in combat. They should have taken the rim off of a 357 mag cartridge and used that.
     
  9. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If it's all you have for defense, get some GI 15 round magazines (most reliable) and some soft points.

    And practice 3-5 quick shot drills.

    I have one, and it's a really fun gun. I load 110 grain FMJ for plinking.

    I would really suggest though, that you get another AR-25. cheaper ammo, more reliable, and a helluva more effective.
     
  10. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You can get a Ruger Mini 14 with a 20 round mag for $600 from CDNN. It would be a better rifle and cheaper to shoot.
    http://www.cdnninvestments.com/
    Sell the carbine. It is nothing more than an expensive to shoot plinker.
     
  11. HockaLouis

    HockaLouis New Member

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    JTJ, I was just about to say something similar. The Mini-14 really is a modernized M-1 Carbine in .223. But there's something about the M-1 Carbine -- a great pistol.

    I think he'll be fine with it...
     
  12. locnload

    locnload Member

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    Thanks for all the comments guys. Just to clarify a few things, I have several other weapons to use for defensive purposes as needed. A Rem 700 in 30-06 for distance, and Rem 870 and Win 1300 Defender for close in, several pistols from 22 to 45 ACP, plus a number of general sporting guns for hunting and plinking. Im' just looking at the M1 Carbine as a light wieght, detachable magazine fed, "grab and go" gun. I am aware of its power limitations, but if I were a thug I would not want several of those 30 Carbine rounds in my torso. And as some of you said, its a heck of a lot of fun to shoot. I like the idea of a recoil pad to lengthen the stock a bit but dont think I need much more modification aside from maybe a good sling and better sights. I have put maybe 1500 rounds through it with no big problems, and don't really see a need to rebuild it. I know that John Farnam's wife Vicki, (Defense Training International) shoots an M1 Carbine and they buy defensive ammo from Corbon that they highly recomend. I have definately considered the Mini 14 and always have my eyes open for a good deal on one that is not beat to death but have not found it yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2012
  13. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    It was made to be a battle carbine, it was used in a world war, thousands of people have been killed with one. I would say that is a fair recommendation.
     
  14. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thousands of enemy combatants were also not killed by one and kept fighting. Not being restricted to fmj helps and it is better than a 22lr but for a combat weapon it is badly under powered. It was meant to replace a pistol not a battle rifle. Home defense with good ammo would probably work.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  15. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A used mini will cost $400 to $500. You can get a new one for $600. The new ones have a number of improvements. Mostly a better barrel.
     
  16. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    I have to agree it's great for your stated purpose.

    There are many modern war rifles which are hard

    put to keep pace with lever rifles, Mosin M44s, and

    SKSs, in the hands of someone who really knows how

    to use them.

    I'm a big guy, handling a larger rifle, like a Garand,

    comes easy for me. But I've heard from many who

    swear by the M1 carbine.
     
  17. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    It's a great carbine. Lightweight and fun to shoot. I had two Inlands at one different times and I liked them a bunch. Load it up with quality defensive ammunition in a fifteen round mag and you should be okay.

    Stock up a spare spring set or two and you're good to go.

    Personally, I have a Mini 30 now for defense. I got it because I like the heavier 7.62x39 cartridge. I've had three Mini 14's at various times and absolutely love them, but like I said, I prefer the heavier round.