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Discussion in '.22 Rifle/Rimfire Discussion' started by molonlabexx, Mar 29, 2013.
Valid points for sure. No question a .22 will kill you as dead as an atomic bomb. A .22's a lot better than a broom handle. That said, I'll stick with something a little bigger.
It's reliability more than stopping power. As long as you have some cci loaded and a tight grouping, you're gone.
Never underestimate how fast a crackhead or methhead can move. Also, someone on that garbage can not realize they are even shot, or not care. They won't go down until they bleed out, which will take longer with a .22 wound. Thats why I use a bigger caliber for h.d.
Eh I can see this in certain situations. But go to youtube and go see some ballistics test. At close range, they are very deadly.
Agreed. While I also believe a .22 can be effective for SD with good shot placement. It would not be a preference.
Remember the guy who chewed off the face of the homeless guy in Fla.? He was shot four times (probably by a 9mm or .40) before he even stopped chewing. Again I'm not sure where he was struck, but a head shot or center mass shot may not always be available. A B.G. is not likely to stand still while you get in a perfect Weaver stance and get a perfect sight picture. But as we've all heard a .22 beats the hell out of a sharp stick.
I have a S&W 15-22 set up for my wife. She is pretty accurate and fast with it and it is her preferred HD weapon. She has a 9mm but prefers the 22lr rifle.
Suppose, (God forbid), you're confronted with an HD situation and respond with a 22lr. Perfect head shot placement notwithstanding, how would the authorities, (or the BG's attorney), react to Mr. Bad Guy ventilated with 12 or 15 22lr rounds? Just askin.
In that situation, they'd hear the same thing they would hear whether I was protecting myself with a 12 ga., 45 acp., 9mm, etc.
"I kept shooting until I felt he/she was no longer a threat to kill me!"
The authorities would think if you only shot them one time is that you weren't actually in fear of your life. If someone only shots the bad guy one time it looks like they are in a controlled state and cool and collected. I've taken a few self defense courses taught by police officers and they all said to pull the trigger until the weapon is empty. How many times have we all read about a bad guy taking the home owner to court after they were shot while breaking into the home and survived.
Like the famous quote says, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than to be carried by six."
Women and seniors get a little more latitude than younger male shooters. As a 73 year old there is no way I will be able to hold my own against a young home invader that may buffed up from his prison work outs. Some seniors may not be able to handle more than a 22 rifle when you consider health issues.
The video has some serious flaws :
1) The guy fails to distinguish between a .22 fired from a rifle and one fired from the shorter barrel of a pistol .
2) Rimfire ammo is less reliable than centerfire .
3) The 30 round magazines available for the Ruger 10/22 are aftermarket and Ruger recommends against them . I tried a Ramline 30 rd. myself and had stoppages .
4) A pistol is easier to move around with, harder for an assailant to grab, and easier to operate with one hand while the phone is in the other hand . He is promoting the rifle .
5) Real world experience has shown the .22 has poor stopping power compared to .38 and above .
6) The guy predicts disorientation / dizziness for anyone who fires a loud gun indoors . In the real world, you can suffer auditory exclusion and hardly hear the gun fire ( per Massad Ayoob ) . In actual cases preserved on YouTube, women shot intruders with 12 guage shotguns and didn't complain of " disorientation " .
7) There was a guy who got mugged in San Francisco's tough Tenderloin District years ago . He woke up with a headache hours later and went for treatment . An X-ray revealed 5 .22s lodged in his head . He lived .
If you want to bet your life on a .22 , it is your right to do so . But do us a favor : Don't make a long YouTube video based on your guesses about what might happen if your woman shoots an intruder multiple times in the chest with her trusty .22 .
8) A former Green Beret shot a Libyan dissident in an attempted assassination . He shot him in the head with a .22 Magnum revolver . The victim lived ( see the book, Manhunt by Peter Mass ) . So much for this guy mentioning on video that professional killers use .22s to bolster his case for .22s in defense roles .
9) The Israelis are believed to have assassinated Gerald Bull in Brussels , using silenced .22 Berettas . Bull was hit 14 times and he did die .
Yeah, many people can criticize using 22's, but again something comfortable and familiar used by a woman in the home is a good thing - much better than nothing, or being intimidated by a larger caliber with it's flash, kick and larger gun and weight size.
If a woman wants to use a 22, that seems like a good thing - rather than have a woman be "forced" into using a larger gun which she may avoid due to her not liking it.
The crazed meth head argument is always there, too. But, you know, can you plan for everything? Should you be planning for the absolute worst of the worst that you can think up? Even if the BG was on meth, shooting him a bunch of times, even with a 22 IS going to make a difference - a big difference.
My one concern about using a 22 would be using a 22 semi-auto. With the 22 round's more frequent tendency to misfire, a semi-auto can become a dead, useless weapon - especially with a person using it that is not very familiar with shooting - meaning would not have the presence of mind to know how to clear a jammed misfired round.
That would make a case for a 22 revolver. Revolvers aren't stopped by a misfired round - you just pull the trigger and go to the next round. There are some nice 10 shot revolvers out there.
I love .22 rifles and handguns and would use them for self defense if I did not have access to stronger medicine. I grew up in New Mexico hunting jackrabbits and they are fast and tough to bring down. I seen those animals take mortal .22 hits and still blast off for another 100 yards in a crazed dash for life. I'm not confident that .22 bullets would stop a determined attacker quickly enough to prevent injury.
I wonder if methheads run around like chickens with their heads cut off.
Maybe a couple steps.
I wasn't dismissing the use of a .22 for home defense, just bringing to point a few reasons why I choose a larger caliber. If that's what you have and feel comfortable with, chances are it will be enough. Just keep the pointy stick handy for a backup.
A 22 is something comfortable and familiar used by a woman?......nooooooo.......Apologize to the ladies on this forum while you still can! My 13 yo daughter was reading over my shoulder and was offended. She wants you to know she is very comfortable and familiar with 9mm, .40, and .308. Oh, and she loves firing a Blackout. I have never seen a woman show up to a class with a .22-Ever. Oh, being married for 18 years, I could never "force" my wife to do anything We need to give our gun owning sisters some respect. Sure there are both women AND men who use .22 for home defense, but let us not underestimate anybody or groups of people.
Please, no offense intended! Not meant to categorize anyone. This was strictly a defense of the 22 as a reasonable alternative.
But I have known a number of women who struggle with larger guns - especially semi-autos. The slide can be a problem. I don't know - I have worked with a number of women and they just don't have the strength to be able to rack the slide - confidently. And they reject those semi-autos - as possible defense guns for themselves.
My best friend - not a small girl at all - struggles with semi-autos. She took her ccw class with a rented 22 pistol. Scored at the top of her class. Since then she has bought her own guns. Two revolvers (38 and 357), a Ruger LCP that she can work with - on her good days, and a M&P22. What does she always carry? Her S&W 38 Airweight revolver. She just can't handle any larger caliber semi-auto's - doesn't have the strength.
Again, no offense intended. I am very dismayed that there may have been any offense taken. Please pass my most sincere apologies to your daughter.
Don't understand me too fast. I've been thru the classes too, and am a firm believer in shooting till the threat's neutralized. I'm looking at this thru the prism of living in a Blue state. There are those who'd look at the scenario I described as cruel overkill by a bloodthirsty gun owner who couldn't wait to kill someone. There's no way they'd equate one 12ga shotgun round, two or three pistol rounds with a magazine full of 22lr to protect yourself, especially in light of the recent unpleasantness in Colorado and Newtown. Prosecuting attorneys of a certain political bend as well as the media would be on you like a fat kid on a cupcake. If Mr. Bad Guy is a member of an aggrieved minority, you've got the possibility of Federal involvement as well as the national media. MHO you understand.
You shoot to stop the threat. If that takes one bullet then one bullet is all you needed to stop the threat. Don't tell people to empty their gun into someone. There might be another threat to shoot at. When you go to court its easier to explain why you only shot once or twice then it is to explain 15 rounds. Now if it took 15 rounds to put them down to stop the threat then it took 15 rounds.