Undoing some of the damage I have done....

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by winds-of-change, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    As many of you know, I grew up knowing nothing about firearms and I raised my children to be afraid of guns and I wouldn't let them have guns as toys. Then I was converted by someone who spent hours explaining to me that guns were not dangerous in the hands of responsible people and then took me to a shooting range and put an Uzi in my hands. The rest is history.

    Well, my oldest son has gone shooting with me. I was so proud to be taking him shooting. But after he 'left the nest', he got a FOID card before I did because his buddies were interested in guns and if my son wanted to handle guns at the gun shop or wanted to go shooting with them, he needed a FOID card. My oldest son was shocked when I bought my first gun but supported my new found interest.

    My daughter was disgusted when I bought my first gun. She didn't even want to discuss it. My youngest son was almost angry at me for that gun purchase. Over time, I occasionally ask them if they would like to go shooting with me. My youngest still refuses but my daughter has been getting interested. She spends some time up in Wisconsin at her friends cabin and all their friends up there hunt, own guns, go fishing, etc. Last time up at the cabin my daughter tasted venison for the first time. A couple days ago one of her Wisconsin friends had a baby and her husband bought the newborn a pink Crickett. My daughter thought that was funny. I told her it happens more often than she thinks. I took this opportunity to ask if I could buy my granddaughter a pink Crickett. I braced myself..........and my daughter said, "When she gets old enough to shoot." (My granddaughter will be 7 in May.) I told her the little one IS old enough to shoot under constant and hands on supervision. I told my daughter I would not just hand her the rifle and let her shoot but I would be behind her, guiding her hands, giving her direction. My daughter said I could buy my granddaughter a pink Crickett as long as I kept it at my house. She lives in an apartment and sometimes workers come in to repair things while she's not home. I was ecstatic with the okay from my daughter. I am going to buy my granddaughter a pink Crickett for her birthday in May.

    Then, as if that wasn't enough good news for me, my daughter said she wouldn't mind having a rifle and that she wanted to go deer hunting. I told her it's not easy to deer hunt and you'd have to be a pretty good shot. I also told her I probably could find someone who would take her deer hunting. (Anyone want to take my daughter deer hunting? By the way, she's single!) I have great hopes that next time I ask her if she wants to go shooting with me she will go. I know once she fires that Mark II of mine she'll be hooked.

    I am slowly undoing the damage I have done in regards to firearms and raising my kids.

    I am so excited. Not to mention the Crickett is a perfect sized rifle for me, too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  2. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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  3. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    Winds, very well written an huge respect for your change and the steps you are using to change your childrens outlook on firearms.

    everyone comes to firearms differently, and for different reasons. a lot of that comes from past experiances or the environment a person grew up in. many people view firearms differently as well and what role they play in their lives.

    for me firearms serve many roles. one i see them as my right and a part of being a free American and a huge part our national heritage. i see them as a tool that has a specific purpose, such as SD or to put food on the table. but i also see them as a recreation. something that i love to do and have spent many enjoyable hours, shooting, looking at them, working on them or learning about them. they have become a huge part of my life and have been for many years.

    change in attitudes takes time and small steps. congrats to you on making that change and for doing for your children what you are doing. small steps.
     
  4. lbwar15

    lbwar15 New Member

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    That's grate. I would take her but I hunt in Alabama.
     
  5. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    Winds...

    I can not express how much respect I have for your story and your personal path into shooting sports, personal responsibility, and the gun culture. :)

    Most of us were handed down this cherrished tradition by our fathers and grandfathers, we were "born to it", so to speak, in a manner as natural to us as mothers milk, and as American as Apple Pie!

    For a person of your circumstance, never being exposed to the POSSITIVE side, and living where you live... To be open minded enough to listen and give our culture a try... Well... You inspire me!

    ...and I'm confident that continued "gentle pursuation", will bring all of your children back to the nest on this issue. ;)

    Much Respect.

    Tack
     
  6. eatmydust

    eatmydust New Member

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    Share this with those that don't understand!

    This is from www.ballistics101.com:

    the gun is civilization




    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

    In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.



    When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

    There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for an armed mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

    People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

    Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation… and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

    So the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.

    – Marko Kloos
     
  7. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    Where I live right now, guns are in the culture here. I live in some farm country where everyone has guns and knows how to use them.

    But.....I grew up in a suburb of Chicago. Google it. The town is called Schiller Park. On one side of the town is Chicago. On the other side is O'Hare airport. As far as I know, no one went hunting and guns were not "needed" in those parts. I later learned my Dad had a pistol, which I have now inherited. A Browning FN from the WWII era, complete with Nazi Eagle on it. He also had a Marlin Bolt action .22, which my brother now owns. But the guns were kept hidden and I never knew he had them until I was grown. In my upbringing, children rarely entered their parents bedroom at any hour of the day or night. I was taught that was their personal space and we stayed out of it.

    So, you see, I never was exposed to firearms until I moved to where I live now. Then I realized everyone had firearms (except me) and I was uneducated and was afraid. I was afraid to let my children go play at other's houses. I let them, of course, but I told them to not touch any guns they might see.

    I have definitely come a long way.

    Why do I enjoy my guns and like shooting? It is an incredibly fun sport for me. That's how I see it. It hasn't been my way of life but I like the challenge of target shooting and, like a golfer, I want to see if I can do better the next time and it keeps me coming back. Also, I can be a timid person in real life and firing a gun is an incredible rush and I feel like a million bucks, ten feet tall with the power of Cratos. How therapeutic is THAT?
     
  8. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I've got a buddy in N. MS, who I'm sure would love to take a single lady hunting...

    His name is Jack. Yes, I know Jack. Been friends since we were around 14 or so. Big fella (does she like cuddly?). Great job, great family, very stable, strong as an ox. Been trying to play matchmaker for him for years. Classic redneck.
     
  9. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    He must treat her like royalty or I will come after him. I've never been hunting but I would "hunt" down a man who mistreated my daughter. (Believe me, I already had to do it once. It took me months but I finally got him. And I'm not kidding.) She does seem to like men who have 'more to them'. How old is he? And is his Dad single? LOL

    By the way, my daughter knows nothing about firearms, hunting or shooting. And I mean nothing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  10. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    I've seen the way he treats women, and really, the only reason I can think of why he can't seem to keep one is because he picks losers. And they are losers.

    He's the kinda guy whose girlfriend would be asked, "Do you even know how to open a door yourself?"

    Yeah, he's like that, and probably better. He's treated his women like queens in the past. Unfortunately, he's been through much of the same stuff I have, and I think he's pretty much given up on finding a decent woman.
     
  11. limbkiller

    limbkiller New Member

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    She is welcome to hunt with me and my youngest son in November.

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  12. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well done, WOC. Indeed!
     
  13. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    ROFLMAO......she is on her way here to have Easter dinner. I'll have to show her those pictures. Heck, if she doesn't want to go hunting with him, I will. ;)

    And didn't I already talk to you about posting those shirtless pictures of your son? :p
     
  14. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I am a firm believer that people who are "afraid" of guns simply have not had any (or the proper) exposure to them. I raised my two daughters to respect firearms. They got their first guns (.22 rifles) by the time they turned 10. It would have been sooner, but they were ambilvalent about owning a gun as dad had plenty to shoot.

    Kids have a natural curiosity about EVERYTHING. I have seen the tragic results of trying to shield kids from guns. They WILL get into them. Sometimes only once.
     
  15. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    That is exactly it. I never had any experience with any firearms. I did shoot my BIL's guns on his farm once many years ago but that was a one time deal.
     
  16. F4U

    F4U Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Winds you are an inspiration. When My brother and his wife adopted their son I "only half jokingly" informed my sister-in-law that it would be my job as uncle to teach him to spit, fart, drive too fast, use foul language, shoot, be a carpenter, work on cars, in general be a self sufficient human being who will have enough basic knowledge to function in a world that is trying to part him from his hard earned money.

    The one thing my brother can teach him, and it is the most important lesson a young man can learn is that nobody is going to give it too you. You got to earn it.

    My brother has none of the skills mentioned in the first paragraph except maybe the foul language one. We did not come from money but my brother put himself through colege as a chemistry major. When He graduated he had 1 loan for $1200 for 4 years of college. Medical school was a different story, massive loans, now paid off after 20 years.

    If you met him out of his office you would not know he is a doctor. He still drives a 94 jeep all summer and a only slightly newer honda accord in the winter.

    I sorta started rambling, but my point is you teach what you can and hope like hell your kid is learning the things you don't know from someone who does. instead of someone who is holding a job and nothing more.

    A small example of this is my brothers insistance on manners by his son. He remembers ( I don't) other parents complimenting mom and dad on how well mannered and polite we boys were when we were young. We were very polite but I don't remember comments about it. He is determined to get those same compliments about his son.
     
  17. Colby

    Colby New Member

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    Winds.
    You've come a long way. And I can understand you kids feelings towards you about guns. You did a good job of turning them against - and now... the opposite. But ... people, and parents, are not infallible. And so change happens. The kids will have to realize there is no perfection.

    A story:
    I have a female friend who had been terrified of guns for many years. There were none in her family growing up. But - she later married a cop. Now there was a gun. The cop turned bad. He beat her, choked her- threatened her - and with the gun. Threatened her kid from a previous marriage with "a drug find" in the kid's car (you know how the police all have access to all sorts of drugs) if she didn't do what he told her (keep her mouth shut is the jist of it) or even considered trying to go to authorities or a lawyer. She was extremely trapped.
    He played politics to the hilt and was just about to become county sheriff when his awful temper got the best of him. He put his gun to the head of a fellow female deputy sheriff. That got the department"s attention. Just before the election to make him county sheriff. He was then "convinced" to take a medical retirement.
    She was then able to go to lawyers and get a divorce.

    This is a very common practice with cops caught going bad in this region anyway. They almost always are reported in the press as seeing doctors and then retired - before their case makes it to court - and the charges are then dropped. Manipulation of the system - and the good ol' boy network working. With full medical retirement! When actually they should have been fired and in many cases sent to prison! Many cases around here - I take notice in the news now - after she told me her story... She knows and has known many cops.

    But she was still terrified of guns when I met her. I was not big into shooting at that time - a couple of years ago. I used to shoot years ago but had not for years. I showed her my old guns. She gingerly handled them. But she told me that every man she had ever been connected with (friends, boyfriends, ... ) had always told her she was just a dumb girl and couldn't shoot. She even asked to go shooting with a previous boyfriend who went all the time - same story - too dumb. She really had a complex about this - feeling she was too dumb!!!

    I took her shooting. Taught her how. She did very well. She decided she wanted to go for ccw permit. She signed up for the course. I decided I better go with her (I didn't have ccw - hadn't shot for years!). I signed up. I saw no one in the class better than her - at the range - she did so well!

    She bought her first gun - a Colt Trooper 357. This whole thing really boosted her confidence! At first she slept with the gun under her pillow (unloaded). She said it made her feel better. She still has deep feelings of insecurity from that disastrous marriage.

    Well, since I now had my ccw, I decided I needed a real conceal defense type gun. My old cowboy guns were hardly that. I bought a Smith 38 revolver - Airweight. And after a bad experience with a Taurus (I thought that was a car!!) I settled on an LCP. Very good conceal gun for me! Then a couple more - you know how it goes.
    But, since she and I range shot together, she decided on the Airweight and the LCP, too! She is not good with semi-autos and slides - strength issues so she mostly carries the Smith Airweight 38 now, though she sees the Ruger as a good small conceal - in certain situations. But she also bought an M&P22 for target practice!
    She's come a long way!!

    So... it's a long - kinda painful story. But people can change.
     
  18. primer1

    primer1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well done, winds. All I can add is to consider the savage rascal to the chipmunk. The rascal has that sweet accutrigger and a peep rear sight, it cost me $155. Yes, it comes in pink. :)
     
  19. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    I'll look into that. Is it a bolt action?

    Never mind. I just Googled it and saw that it is a bolt action.
     
  20. primer1

    primer1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Single shot. I put a scope on it, by request, but haven't shot it with the scope. Using the peep sight, I had most of my shots almost touching at 20 yards.