Tula Berdan Primed Ammo corrosive/rusting firing pin module/housings

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by CAMCHAMPION1988, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. CAMCHAMPION1988

    CAMCHAMPION1988 New Member

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    This really got me thinking so i recently got a Egyptian Maadi AK-47/AKM and the first and only thing i have shot in it is. Tula 122gr Steel Cased 7.62x39mm Berdan Primed non corrosive you know the cheapest stuff you can get nowadays. Got it at walmart for $5.47 a box 20 per box anyways now i know it says it is not corrosive. However i was just reading somewhere how that even though the powder they use is not corrosive the Berdan primers are corrosive. I guess it is better to assume that yes the Berdan primers are than not right. Anyways so i just field stripped the gun about a week ago i use a combination of Ballistol,CLP,Gunscrubber,Hoppes 9 Solvent. Always all these Chemicals/Lubes whatever gun i am cleaning whether it is my (my Prized no longer Italian Imported Beretta 92FS,1911'S Inox,Glocks,AK'S,Shotguns you know etc.)

    Off topic LOL anyways i read recently i can't remember where where a guy way shooting the above mentioned tula ammo same weght/grain caliber etc. Well i guess his firing pin module/housing you know that little hole where the firing pin lives got all rusted from the inside out from what he claims was the berdan Primers of the above mentioned ammo????? he said he never disassembled the firing pin module/housing to be never taking apart and cleaning the actual Firing Pin Module/Housing.

    Now usually when i clean a gun i don't take apart the firing pin My Method for Cleaning and Preventing rust in the Firing Pin Module/Housing is what i call "DROPPER BOTTLE" it is described as follows i just take these eyedropper needle bottles filled with CLP,Ballistol,Gun Scrubber and drip all 3 yes all three of these chemicals into the little hole where the firing pin lives. I obviously scrub the entire gun with all of these chemicals with brushes and wipe until white with patches,Run Bore Snake and Hoppes 9 solvent and patches though the barrel till patches are whiter than snow. But i never really thought about taking apart the Firing Pin Module/Housing should i be doing that. I mean i take pride and Care for my Guns obsessively.

    My (No Longer Italian Impored 92FS Beretta Inox is what i worry about the most) even though i don't shoot steel cased and/or berdan primed ammo in that Heirloom. I think i have actually only ever disassembled my Glock Firing Pin Modules down to the bare firing pin for cleaning itself now that i think about it. Bottom line i guess don't quote me on this i was only told by someone at the range after i told them about the article i read. Berdan Primers are Corrosive even though the powder in the steel case it not WOW PLEASE I HOPE I AM WRONG ON THIS. But then again also i was told that powder/carbon and dirt will eventually attract moisture (even if it not Corrosive ammo or Berdan Primed) That is why i am so OCD about my Gun Cleaning it is blessing and a curse:)

    So any of you guys Completely Disassemble your Firing Pin/Modules down to the bare firing pin whenever you clean regardless of firing Berdan Primed ammo?

    My "DROPPER BOTTLE" Method should be sufficient at keeping my Guns that i have fired Berdan Primed ammo Free of Rust right??? Or is a Firing Pin Module/Housing Complete Disassembly Necessary??? i Have been shooting for 11 years and this is the first time i have ever heard of this scared me a little like i said.

    Thanks fellow powder burners.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  2. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    First, do not think there has been a "corrosive" powder since we stopped using black powder.

    Second, being Berdan or Boxer does not make a primer corrosive. Primers that everyone used for years were based on potassium chlorate- which burns to potassium chloride- first cousin to table salt. Add moisture, you have rust- hence corrosive. US military used "corrosive" primers up to 1952, M1 carbine excepted. Then they changed to "non-corrosive" primers, based on lead azide.

    I shoot a lot of commie milsurp ammo, and recall that the commie guns were designed to shoot that. I do not detail strip the bolt on every gun every time I go shooting- but 11 years is pushing the envelope a bit.

    Flushing out the firing pin channel is good, but would probably detail strip and clean about every 5K rounds/ 5 yrs or so. Depending on your climate, your mileage may vary.
     

  3. Airborne1

    Airborne1 Member

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    After having my SKS sitting in the case for several years, and deciding to clean it several months ago, I took the bolt carrier apart to include taking out the firing pin. This was the first time I ever even thought to clean that part of my rifle. I have only put maybe 600 to 700 rounds through it since I got it in 94, I had always cleaned it, sometimes soon after shooting it. But I had never cleaned the guts of the bolt before. This was now 19 years after first getting and using my SKS. I have used almost always the cheapest old milsurp steel cased ammo. Anyway the carrier group and firing pin still looked fine, and showed no signs of rust or corrosion. Lucky for me.
     
  4. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    I do not shoot milsurp ammo of any kind. But I have shot a lot of comblock ammo in all my guns. When I get a gun new I clean the firing pin assembly and lubricate it with white lithium grease. I do not give the firing pin assembly any further care. Depending on how often I shoot the gun I clean the firing pin assembly every 1 to 5 years. I have never seen any rust or accelerated wear to the firing pin.

    Back in the 80's I wore the firing pin carrier out on a Westernfield pump shotgun. At that time I just lubricated the firing pin by squirting WD40 on the firing pin. The Westernfield shot an untold number of rounds. It was never stored in a house. I always kept it in a barn. There was an exercise track that I frequented that had a spring trap that threw skeet out over a pond. Not only did I shoot a lot of skeet over the pond anyone who wanted to use the shotgun also shot skeet with it.
     
  5. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    A lot of these interweb gurus will take guns apart and "polish" the internals. What this does is forcefully remove protective coatings off internal parts making it very easy for rust to build up. Polishing surfaces in a gun is seldom a good idea.

    Trying to shortcut time and use ends up with rusty useless junk.

    If your concerned about corrosive salts hoppes9 was designed to flush those salts away.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  6. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    Do it just once, take the bolt apart, scrub away the rust, and youre gtg for a long time. It's an AK. Field strip every time after range, oil, store in a dry place. Don't worry about Tulammo and such, presume it corrosive no matter what the box says. I start every cleaning with a little water, then as usual.
     
  7. CAMCHAMPION1988

    CAMCHAMPION1988 New Member

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    Very Interesting

    WD-40 REALLY I heard that a lot of folks add it in addition to Chemicals like CLP etc. when cleaning guns I mean it says on the Can one of it's attributes is to draw out moisture i mean it couldn't hurt.

    Yeah the only ammo i shoot that i guess you could call commie is that Tula and wolf (made in russia). only for my AK though other than that it is Brass Ammo (USA Made) (Through my Italian Beretta Heirloom or any of my Handguns,Rifles,Shotguns).

    I love cleaning my guns it is actually an activity i can say i like doing but taking apart and putting back together certain mechanisms of certain and/or all Firearms can be a bitch Y'all know that though.
    I have never done this but i guess there is a DVD out there that shows how to 100% Complete Detail Disassembly and Reassembly of the Beretta 92 (it says a complete detail strip dissasembly and reassembly should only be done by a Gunsmith because of all these little springs that are essential to the operation of the 92 that are inside the more complex mechanism of the Beretta 92. (Like on the manual or something is where it says that). Damm i wish there was like a Free Detail Strip video for the Beretta 92 like on youtube or something. (My Glocks are the Only Gun i have ever 100% Detail Stripped Disassembled and Reassembled since there are free vids of Glock Detail Strips on youtube)


    Cool i am glad to hear that you think adding those 3 Chemicals via DROPPER BOTTLES will flush out any and all corrosive/rust making **** out of the Firing Pin hole/Channel/Module/Housing. Yeah i will in the future though definitely make an effort to disassemble the Firing Pin Modules on my guns for a Complete Cleaning.

    So now people are blaming the salts in Berdan Primers for corrosion who knows oh well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  8. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    I didn't realize you love cleaning. This may be the wrong rifle for you.
    Seriously though, we can't know what exactly caused a refurbished Egyptian mil surp AK to rust. Odds are, if it is mechanically sound, it will do fine with any ammo it was built to fire. Firing pins btw are replaceable and inexpensive.
     
  9. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i used WD-40 for many years a long time ago, because my father did. i highly suspect the current product isn't exactly the same product of years ago, and have found other products that work much better, even as a penetrating oil than WD-40, like Kano Kroil. Kroil has to be one of the best i have found and is my go to general purpose cleaner, penetrant and bore solvent and rust remover. Lucas makes a great gun oil that works awesome and has replaced my use of the standard i used for years, RemOil.
     
  10. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    As stated, no smokeless powder is corrosive. One should always treat Berdan primers as if they are corrosive. Then you will never be surprised
     
  11. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    At one point WD40 was the most highly recommended gun cleaner/lubricant on the market. Mixing WD40 with CLP or other gun cleaning products isn't real good. When I buy a product to clean my gun I am buying it because it is the best on the market as is. If I wanted to mix my own concoction I would use transmission fluid and a little marvel mystery oil. I wouldn't waste $10 on a can of CLP.
     
  12. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    I would never use atf fluid for anything but shifting gears. Its mildly toxic and has a very low flashpoint similar to jetfuel...

    It acts like denatured alcohol in its ability to remove skin oils which can lead to very bad skin cracks. You don't want this. I had it happen to me it took two months of gluing my skin together so it could grow out enough after a hole in my glove allowed stripper to get in... don't recomend it.
     
  13. CAMCHAMPION1988

    CAMCHAMPION1988 New Member

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    I should have said different words I don't like cleaning but i don't mind it either

    The guy never states what brand country of origin his AK is though. I was just relaying the info of an article about some guy somewhere with a X-Type AK47 never Taking apart his Firing Pin/Module/Housing to clean the hole where the firing pin lives and he says that Berdan Primers are corrosive and rusting his firing pin module from the inside out. The ammo he is talking about is Tula (non corrosive),Berdan Primed,Made in Russia ammo. I happened to buy the exact same ammo recently to shoot in my 6 Month old Maadi

    My Maadi AK is Brand New had it 6 months before that i had a Romanian Ak 5 years ago. I am only concerned because i read the article about the guy who rusted his Firing Pin Module on his AK47 (X-Meaning unknown) X-Type AK.

    Sorry for any confusion i was just getting answers because i shot the same type of ammo and i myself never. Go into Taking apart the Firing Pin Module down to the bare firing pin to clean i just simply drop these 2 chemicals down the little hole. Ballistol,CLP,Gun Scrubber Via DROPPER BOTTLE.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  14. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Any petroleum distillate might cause skin irritation. Comparing denatured alcohol to ATF is like comparing an atom bomb to plastic explosives as far as the chance of skin irritation.

    I am sure ATF might explode if you put in a paint sprayer then fogged a room with it. But WD40 is far more flammable than ATF. In fact, almost any petroleum product once it is atomized is highly flammable. Should we not use anything that comes out of a spray can?

    I have sprayed WD40 in locked up small engines. Hauled the engine home. Once I was at home I pulled the rope and the engine fired with nothing but the WD40 in it. I have seen people use WD40 as starting fluid. Should we not use WD40 either?
     
  15. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    the current WD-40 will not start a diesel engine or even a gas engine like it did in the past.

    and ATF is very flammable. we use it to prime fuel filters in diesel engines when they are replaced. it also helps to lubricate the injectors.

    i wouldn't buy WD-40 anymore simply because it's not the same product as years ago. and yes i have used WD-40 in the past for a starting fluid. but that was years ago. that is also why i refuse to use in any my guns anymore.
     
  16. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    You do not need to disassemble the bolt every time. It won't hurt, just not necessary. I can't vouch for every parts-bin AK, but rusting on the inside from normal operation/maintenance is extremely unusual. There are all kinds of scary stories about some guy somewhere. Have fun shooting the rifle, sounds like it is in good hands. BTW cleaning does have a way of making me happy too... when it's done :D
     
  17. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Unless there are serious problems with the chamber, there's no way for the powder gases and primer debris to get into the firing pin channel.

    The case head covers the firing pin channel until the bolt is all the way back and the ejector pushes the case out.