Truck gun: mission/philosophy

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by SSGN_Doc, Feb 28, 2016.

  1. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    A recent thread about a long gun for a truck gun, by gunman41mag , raised some questions in my mind about what people think they may need a "truck gun" for and what characteristics may be required to meet those needs. These characteristics could vary widely based on the mission people envision for their chosen truck gun. It may not even end up being a rifle or a long gun at all.

    For example: someone working ranch land that covers hundreds of acres in Texas may find that a bolt gun or lever action in a rifle caliber will handle rural ranch needs of dispatching animals, killing predators, and providing some portable security. While someone living in urban area may be looking for something to get them back home through an area of urban chaos, such as Missouri or LA riots. Maybe there is no perfect truck gun, but are there categories of truck gun missions? What guns fit those different missions, semi-auto, lever gun, shotgun, pistol caliber carbine, etc.? What kind of capacity, power, feed system is appropriate or deemed necessary for the percieved mission and why? (I had a hard time in my mind seeing a scenario in my area where I would need 180 rnds of 7.62x39 preloaded in mags on hand in my truck for defensive purposes, but I live in a semi-rural area surrounded by hippies, whale saviors, and other granola eaters.)

    Long guns may not be practical at all for immediate threats due to limited mobility in a vehicle, so they may not be a great choice as defense against carjacking. Laws in some states don't allow a long gun to actually have ammunition in the firearm while it is in a vehicle. Some employers don't allow firearms on their property, (this includes many military installations, nuclear facilities, etc.). How do people deal with logistics?
    Is a pistol with multiple 15+ round mags a better option?

    Many argue that leaving a gun in a vehicle at all is a bad idea due to possible theft while you are away from the vehicle. Aside from possibly helping arm criminals, how much of a budget are folks comfortable with for possibly losing a firearm to theft?

    Just some areas I'd like to hear more about from folks here.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  2. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    I think you hit the nail on the head so to speak. a "truck gun" could mean different types of guns for different localities. urban could be much different than rural.

    I can't speak of any type of long gun for urban as even when I lived in an urban sprawl, I didn't carry a long gun in my truck at that time, and can't seem to know for sure what I might carry if still did live in an urban area.

    but in a rural area, I have several various long guns that I can use or do use as truck guns on occasion. a lot of it depends upon what I feel may be needed for whatever may be happening at the time. at times when riding some of the fence lines, checking for coyotes, it may be either my AR with a scope, or maybe my 25-06 bolt rifle for longer shots. sometimes it might be one of the lever action 30-30's that I carry. sometimes in the wood or near the creeks, I might feel the need to carry one of the pump shotguns with a couple of boxes of buckshot or slugs thrown into the truck. lots of hogs and lots of snakes in our area.

    personally, I just don't like the idea of keeping one permanently in the truck, even if it is secured or locked up, simply because of theft. even if it's secured or locked into some sort of locked storage box, it doesn't make any difference if they happen to steal the whole vehicle, because then the have more time to break into the box or defeat any security devices. mine come out when i'm done an go back into the house. I know of a few guys who keep guns on their ATV's or farm trucks that never leave the ranch or farm, but I still wouldn't feel comfortable with that either. but to each their own.

    usually when I think of a truck gun, it would be something either older or less expensive, that you are afraid of getting dinged up or scratched. a couple of mine I bought new that were lesser expensive models with synthetic stocks, or older used guns that were in great working order, but for sure not any beauty queens.

    I like having either a rifle or a shotgun along simply because of the added range they have over whatever pistol I may be carrying at the time. I like having that advantage if needed. simply a person needs to use or carry whatever best suits their particular or specific needs. and that will or can vary from person to person and what they have available to them and the vehicle they intend to carry it in.
     

  3. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Off road I carry a 357 revolver so I keep an H&R single shot 357 rifle broken down. If I have to drive to the city (Phoenix) I will carry a 9mm with 10 and 17 rnd mags. A get home bag in the trunk. If it looked like times were edgy I had to go for medical reasons there would be an AR in the trunk with at least 10 mags..
     
  4. gunman41mag

    gunman41mag Active Member

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    I'm at work now, & posting on my phone a long answer is going to be "pita" once i have time & on my laptop I'll give you my answer to this thread
     
  5. hairbear1

    hairbear1 Member

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    We can't use handguns/pistols/revolvers here in Australia for hunting or for CCW because of some idiots idea that we may go around shooting everybody in sight. This law has been around since Federation(1901 or earlier) and we can't have a loaded rifle on a public road.

    Most of our hunting is across open country with a bit of mountainous stuff thrown in and a bit of stuff in thick scrub and a pump action rifle, lever action or bolt action will work well most of the time.
    A shotgun or lever action is another thing that may work well especially if your running pigs down in the wheat paddocks but it all comes down to what your going to use what gun for and the ranges you expect to be shooting at.
     
  6. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    After gunman's post I started watching some YouTube videos and found many varied choices from pistols to long guns, budget guns to high end. One video did stand out titled "My truck gun got stolen". The poster had a Glock 19 in a gun vault that was secured to the vehicle with a steel cable. The thieves cut the steel cable and took the whole box. He also noted that he had a second pistol in a door pocket that the thieves didn't take. His conclusion was to no longer keep a gun in the truck in a permanent basis. He also noted he usually had a CC pistol on his person so the truck gun was kind of redundant.
     
  7. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Location and needs do seem to dictate choices. When I was in Georgia snakes and hogs were a concern. A shotgun was a common companion into the swampy woods. A .30-30 lever action was not uncommon either. For "urban security I had a KelTec Sub2000 that used Glock mags that were compatible with my Glock 19 and 17. I figured mag compatibility was a pretty good reason as well as the light weight and compact size of the KelTec.

    Here in Washington, the KelTec could still have some merit in the urban areas I would be concerned about. Again compatibility of mags and ammo, low profile transport are good considerations. It fits in a laptop bag. The added barrel length does increase velocity and penetration with 124 and 147 gr bullets but don't have quite the range of my .30-30 or an AR in the event of a miss.

    For ventures into the woods the .30-30 or a magnum pistol cal carbine may be good for predators. Cougars are a real concern here, and venomous snakes are almost nonexistent on this side of the Cascade mountains. So the shotgun comes out if I'm hunting deer and also have the possibility of hunting some grouse while the deer are bedded down.

    In Washington it is not legal to have a loaded mag inserted into a rifle or shotgun in a vehicle. In Oregon it is legal. So, switching to a box mag loaded long gun may make some sense for convenient rapid loading instead of trying to port load of load through a loading gate in an "emergency".
     
  8. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Looking forward to hearing from you, since your thread inspired so many questions on my part.
     
  9. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm not a big fan of the truck gun idea, as in kept in the truck 24\7, for a few reasons. One of which is the theft end of things, but the other one has to do with leaving a perfectly functional weapon stored in a vehicle in certain climates, along with the ammunition for it. Large tempature swings are not kind to wood, steel, and powders in general, and if the vehicle is starting to have some rust issues, to the point of hole forming in visible spots, how bad is the floor under the carpet getting? Then again, what would you expect from a guy who lives in the rust belt, that has had to get the same M500 working again after a friend leaves it in his truck for the entire span between September and May, every year for the last 20? (Only original part left is the receiver.) granted, taking it in and out of the car and house will also cause condensation, but this also adds salt into the mix, which is worse.

    As to having one with, and bringing it back in at home, never in the city. Considering that the closest thing I own to an MSR of any kind i s a M1A and a couple of Minis (1 Ranch, 1 GB model, 1 BAO, and 1 Mini 30.) I really don't have any compact "Tacticool" looking rigs with which to make the Thug\Goblin hybrids $#!t themselves at first glance. i do tend to put my primary or BUG in the door pocket, and return it to where it was before getting out, but that's about it. Hell, I'm in my vehicle, so all i really have to do is make a big enough gap to GTFO, not fight a Falujha style battle. A couple extra mags, and the wife also carries, so if we can't take care of it at that point, a rifle really wouldn't have helped much in a case like that.

    out in the sticls, what ever is appropriate for dealing with what I may encounter. Bear country, one of the .45-70s, an 870 in 12 ga with slugs, usually have one of the .357s on me at that point as well. Possible range session after the jobs are done, whatever i feel like taking, and the rest of the group decide to bring. General farm work, where distance may be needed to bust chucks, a coyote or something larger, one of the Mausers, a Mosin, anything that will reach out and ruin something's day if need arises. most often the Type 53, the Garand, the M1A, or an M44. Sometimes the SKS. Depends on the mood I'm in, and what other's grab. mixed bag of hard hitters and some 55 grain accelerator Sabot loads along with to cover both bases.

    Now for the legal side of things. A loaded long gun in the vehicle is a bit of a gray area in PA. With or without a LTCF, loaded carry of a long gun in a vehicle is not legal, with the following exception. A LTCF allows carry of a SBS or SBR in a motor vehicle, fully loaded, and ready to go, or any other firearm which has no sporting purpose. Hell, if you can conceal it on your person, that's legal as well. All others must be stored with an open chamber, fully encased, and unloaded, in a place not accessible while operating the vehicle. Also, if you are able to escape the gun fight, and get to your vehicle, to grab said long gun and return to the fight changes SD to Man 1 in a hurry in the eyes of the law. Gaining access, and retreating to a further safe position with the long gun loaded in case the threat to your safety follows is perfectly legal, which is the case in most free states.

    Would buying a Draco pistol, Form 4 it (make sure the wife and room mates can also have it with them), and adding an underfolder to it be something I might decide to do in the future? Maybe spend the extra on a threaded barrel, and a suppressor as well? I am giving it serious thought at this time, but for that kind of outlay, i'm d@mn well going to make sure it comes in with me when I park for the night, and when CC can be pulled off with that rig. I've spent less on cars in the past, as well as trucks and bikes. that would even fit in the saddle bag on the bike if i felt the need to carry it, but I generally don't travel where that kind of firepower would be needed.

    my general thought is that if you need a rifle to go to the corner store and back, you really don't need a rifle. You need a new zip code.
     
  10. SRK97

    SRK97 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Remington 870 Supermagnum
     

    Attached Files:

  11. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Kfox, that was kind of my thinking as well. I don't figure I would need a long gun for an extended period of time for "social purposes". An AR and 3 mags should be about the max load out to get me distance to get out and get home or to a police station. Urban combat on US soil is not my job, unless we are invaded and fighting a war on our soil. Getting out of a bad situation is my self defensive right and responsibility.
     
  12. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Nice. Care to share your reasoning and intended use for your choice?
     
  13. SRK97

    SRK97 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't keep it in there full time, shots in,Virginia are typically only around 100,yards and having a utility gun that can be used for small game is a plus. When it comes to defence there is nothing better than a load of 00 buck or a slug.
     
  14. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    9x19 and 5.56x45/223 weigh about the same but 9mm takes half the room. The rifle round has 4X the power and range. The AR is to get me home which is 200 miles from Phoenix. It would have to be a really nasty situation for the AR to come out. We had to go to Phoenix for a week and I had the Beretta FS9 and the Keltec Sub 200 with Beretta mags. Easier to put in a drawer or computer bag if you have to go grey. The AR is not that much longer than the Sub extended just heavier.
    I stand corrected. I just measured and the Sub 2000 is 29" long while the AR is 35" long. 6" is quite a bit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  15. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Makes sense to me. An old Mossberg BA or single shot rode along in my dad's truck off base pretty much all the time when we lived in NC for the same reason. He went an bought a Sasvage 110 in .270, and only ever fired 5 shots through it in 20 years. Never had a shot long enough for it to really shine.

    out here, there's a fair amount of open fields once you're out of the city, hence the desire to have a rifle over a shotgun. The .22 revolver or take down model is along for small game. (Manually operated firearms with the exception of semi-auto shotguns for small game. We have a Bill in the House right now trying to get Sunday hunting, and semi-autos allowed for all game.)

    So, what rod and reel is that below the 870?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  16. Dallas53

    Dallas53 Well-Known Member

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    theft is always an issue, especially if guns are involved and I for one do not want any criminal having any more access to guns, even if the gun that is stolen is some cheap piece of junk. in some smash and grab in parking lot or wherever, if the gun is secured an locked up, not likely they will get it, as time is critical to them, but if the case is if they steal the entire vehicle, then time isn't an issue and they have plenty of it to defeat your security devices or lockbox.

    mine when i'm done needing them in the truck are removed and brought into the house. I learned that lesson painfully many years ago when my truck was stolen and stripped when it was found. yep, the gun was long gone. and at that time I didn't keep the serial numbers recorded, so even if they did happen to find the gun, I couldn't have proven it was mine. painful and expensive lesson. the truck got repaired, but the pistol was long gone to me, even if it was ever recovered. lesson learned. guns are never left in my truck, or out of my sight and serial numbers and descriptions are logged and kept in several places.

    and yes as Mr. Kfox eluded to the legalities of keeping a gun inside a vehicle. check your state laws. some having a loaded gun inside a vehicle is prohibited. in Texas we are not under any such restrictions. now for the sake of safety, I do keep long guns loaded, but never chambered. again check your state laws as to be legal.

    my zip code does seem safe enough for the most part, as long as you discount some of those four legged critters!
     
  17. kfox75

    kfox75 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Something else to keep in mind is how your state defines the words Loaded Firearm. Some states require the weapon to be completely unloaded, others have a 2 mechanical actions type law meaning it would be legal if you had a rifle loaded in the magazine only and the safety on, others have a 3 mechanical action law, and some don't care if it is loaded, unloaded, oe up someone's @$$ sideways.

    The next sticking point becomes "Stored", as in how or where.

    Do your research before carrying a long gun in your vehicle for defensive purposes.
     
  18. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    Well, it's not "hundreds of acres in Texas", but the

    basic principles are the same. Wild dogs, feral cats, predators, etc.
     
  19. TankTop

    TankTop Active Member Supporter

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    I live in Colorado Springs, both active and retired military heavy, probably more so than almost anywhere else in America. In an "all hell breaks loose" situation and I'm trying to get home do I want to look inconspicuous with a Glock under my shirt or don't mess with me with an AK over my shoulder? I can't imagine a situation requiring the latter where I am and if it did I doubt I would fare too well compared to the well trained around me. That leaves a firearm to deal with BG or a long gun to find my way to civilization if broke down in the mountains. For day to day it should probably be something like a Ruger P series, cheap, accurate and something you won't loose sleep over if it's stolen (not a big fan of leaving firearms in my vehicles unattended). In the mountains a polymer bolt gun with a scope and a dozen rounds is probably my best bet, maybe along the lines of a Savage Axis. Reasonably lightweight and something I can bag dinner with if needed.
     
  20. artbrownsr

    artbrownsr Forum Chaplain Lifetime Supporter

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    I am in the rural camp! Up here the gun needs to be 30-06 or so. But I think I would cheat a little and have a second (.22LR) for small game etc.
    The reasoning is that some of our travel distances are 100-300 mile apart and weather/ road conditions can be a challenge all year round.
    From whiteout snow storms, Avalanches, wild/forest fire, and then the occasional mechanical breakdown and seasonally lonely roads.
    Most uses up here would be for food and animal defense.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016