Thunder and steel

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by bullet, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. bullet

    bullet New Member

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  2. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    An excellent article. Although I don't reload at this point, I have enough general knowledge that it was quite understandable for me. However, I've never heard of a belted cartridge before. If it's not too much trouble, would you mind explaining it to me please?
     

  3. bullet

    bullet New Member

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    It is on some magnum cartridges like the 300H&H, 300Win mag, 300Weaherby (all Weatherby cartirges), 8mm Rem Mag, 375H&H and so on. Some believed it was put there for strengthening the case to make it stronger, but it is for head spacing and for sure feeding out of a box magazine.

    None belted case like this 7mm08
    [​IMG]

    Belted case like this 8mm Rem Mag case
    [​IMG]
    note belt around the bottom of the case.
     
  4. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    Okay. I guess that the higher the pressure of a load, the more important the head space. Is that right?
     
  5. Marlinman

    Marlinman New Member

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    Yes it is ca. Anything magnum in a rifle is usually belted I.e. 7mm rem mag, 338 win mag, 300 win mag and all the short mags
     
  6. CA357

    CA357 New Member Supporter

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    Thank you kind sir.
     
  7. Marlinman

    Marlinman New Member

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  8. The_Kid

    The_Kid New Member

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    Actually, no.

    Winchester Short Magnum
    An article of importance..

    Pros & Cons of the .300 Magnums
     
  9. bullet

    bullet New Member

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    I don't like rebated rims nor short fat bullets, but that is a preference of mine and it mainly has to do with feeding from a magazine. Some like them I don't.
     
  10. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    I never could understand the dislike some have for a belted magnum. What is the difference whether it is rimmed, semi rimmed, rimless, or belted??
     
  11. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    In the general case, non belted is more accurate.

    Unless you mic the belts, and turn to uniform thickness, the headspace will be affected. Of course, you can fireform and then necksize to allow headspace on the shoulder, but that is a PITA. And I for one, will not trust neck sized ammo for anything other than target shooting at the range.
     
  12. bullet

    bullet New Member

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    Don't buy into belted Magnums not being accurate or non belted magnums being more accurate because of the belted or the lack of it.

    Out of the box 300Win Mag Savage
    [​IMG]

    Three shot group 165gr Sierra
    [​IMG]

    Nine shot group 165gr Sierra
    [​IMG]

    Out of the box 7mmSTW Savage
    [​IMG]



    Three shot group 130gr Seirra MK 3500fps
    [​IMG]
     
  13. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's not a matter of "buying into it." It's simple fact. You can't change internal ballistics.
     
  14. bullet

    bullet New Member

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    I said nothing about changing interna ballistics, I just don't think people ought to buy into Belted magnums not being accurate. Example, how many national championships have been won by 300WSM as apposed to the 300Win mag, you might be surprised and I am talking about only during the time the 300WSM has been in existence.

    Also, lets see some of your targets that you have posted before on forums or the web from your none belted magnums. My above targets have been posted before and these are only a very small percentage of target evidence I have posted through the years in articles, forums and websites for my belted magnums.

    I also did not say none belted are not accurate, only that belted magnums can be highly accurate.
     
  15. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And I didn't say that belted magnums were not accurate. If you re-read my post, I said that consistent belts, or neck sizing can compensate the the potential headspacing problems.

    But since not all shooters handload, a valid comparison must use factory loads. In that case, any inconsistency in the length of the belt will effect headspacing, bullet travel before engaging rifling and therefore accuracy.

    My hunting handloads for the .300 WinMag (165 Speer BTSP) and .338 WinMag (250 Speer) are very accurate. Sub MOA. But I mic the belts, and turn them to uniform within .001.

    If I ever get another magnum (doubtful, since I now use the .30-06 for everything:)) it will be .300 RUM, so that belt turning will not be necessary.
     
  16. bullet

    bullet New Member

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    I have shot and loaded for my brothers .300Rum and it is a powerful and interesting cartridge, one to certainly consider for long range hunting with plenty of power to spare. I have two Mark V's in 300Weatherby so I would not have a need for the 300Rum, but my brother really likes his and it does knock down the game. I understand your intent in your previous post. Thanks for the response.
     
  17. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    My experience w/ belted Magnums is limited. When I bought my 7MM rem mag nothing was said about accuracy by the belted detractors. They could not stand any belt period. I can see and understand why the people that don't like the 7mm Rem mag if you look at on paper compared to .30cal mags and even standard or metric cartridges. But, it is so damb accurate and does everything I want it too.

    W/ Barnes XFB 140 and 160gr is is a 500 yard rifle for Elk. Both are on the lower side of energy, but still within 1400fpe that I use and penetrate better then most other bullets I've tried. 500 yards is a long way. 400 yards or less is more managable and practical.
    If you look at our history, the .45-70 almost pushed Buffalo and Grizzly to extinction w/ 2016fpe on the max side w/ a 300gr lead bullet in a lever gun. That is at 100 yards.
    The 7mm Rem mag at 300 yards w/ a 140gr Barnes XFB delivers the same energy. Call me silly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  18. bullet

    bullet New Member

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    The 7mm Rem Mag is a fine cartridge and two of my close friends it is their go to hunting cartridge for all that they hunt.