thumb over thumb finger displacement

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by 2ndAmendmentFreedom, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. 2ndAmendmentFreedom

    2ndAmendmentFreedom New Member

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    Hey all,

    A few months ago i transitioned from crossed thumbs to thumb over thumb. While i find that thumb over thumb gives me better contact with the gun, i find myself readjusting my support hand fingers after each and every shot (shooting .45). If i don't do that, i am essentially shooting one handed after 2 or 3 shots because the recoil knocks my support hand off my strong grip hand. I move my fingers very quickly when redoing my support hand grip so my rate of fire isn't affected. It just doesn't seem very optimal and combat ready.

    Let me know what you guys think!
    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
  2. PrinC

    PrinC New Member

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    I use the thumb over thumb method and i love it. I shoot a G35 in 40 caliber. I find for shooting with this pistol in its stock form i have to extend more of my thumb along the frame of the pistol to tame the muzzle flip but after some practice it becomes second nature. I would recommend you try it out and practice more.
     

  3. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    Push with dominant hand, pull with support. (But not too much.)
     
  4. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I crossed my thumbs(one thumb over the other) when shooting a revolver for MANY years. When I went to the auto I found the crossed thumbs caused me to 'twist' the gun a little which caused me to be less accurate with the auto. I changed the the parallel thumb placement ( I guess this what you are describing as thumb over thumb) and I shot much better.
     
  5. 2ndAmendmentFreedom

    2ndAmendmentFreedom New Member

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    I use cross thumbs on revolvers too, I'm just wondering how stable your support hand is when you shoot thumb over thumb since there is nothing really holding the two hands together.
     
  6. 25-5

    25-5 New Member

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    I was taught the cross thumb for my Colt Series 70 Gov. and revolvers. I like it best, and that is what I have used for forty years (holy crap, 40). However, I do teach the new parallel thumbs. Just can't get used to the new way.
     
  7. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    When you get right down to it, there are no "methods" except your own. Take a two-handed grip and you modify it until you're comfortable with it, it feels natural and you're consistently hitting what you're trying to hit.

    If you think of it in baseball terms, a pitcher has to comply with ironclad rules about coming to the set position, back foot on the rubber, etc., but the mechanics of his actual delivery are his own. It's the same with shooting.
     
  8. 70cuda383

    70cuda383 New Member

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    If your gun is moving in your hand from recoil, then your not gripping it hard enough...at least, in my opinion.

    I use the same grip on everything I shoot, although it's been a few years since I've shot a revolver (I don't own one)

    I never seem to have a problem with guns shifting in my hand or having to readjust my grip.

    Maybe you should try shooting strong hand only, and weak hand only for a bit. that may help you with your 2 hand grip and no longer have the issue of the weapon shifting in your hand
     
  9. BillM

    BillM Active Member Supporter

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    60-70% of the grip should be with your support hand. It sort of sounds like the ball
    of your support hand thumb is sliding where it contacts the grip panel. If so, go to
    a more aggressive grip material. Try a little strip of skateboard tape where the support
    hand cotacts the grip and see if that works. Most decent hardware stores carry
    rolls of material for stair treads. Same stuff as skateboard tape and sold by the foot.
    Put a strip of it on the frontstrap if it isn't checkered too.
     
  10. sarge_257

    sarge_257 New Member

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    That push and pull that you stated is exactly the way I was taught by the US Army. I use the side by side thumb when shooting combat with a Colt 45 but if shooting in NRA 3 gun we were taught to have the shooting hand thumb up. I never did like it but it did not affect my scores so I did as trained. I shot on the Army Pistol team for 18 years and we all shot as per trained. But the push-pull was the main thing that kept us shooting without losing our grip. Sarge PS I have the Gold Excellent in Competition medal so I must have been doing something right.
     
  11. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    More than once over the weekend I observed guys who took girls to shoot on two different ranges, the the girls had their thumbs behind the slide.

    Because the women were not taught to grab the handgun as high as possible, their thumbs did not get injured.

    But I cringed everytime they shot.

    (Yes I corrected each that I could, but one women ignored me saying "I have received advanced training". If she had "advanced training", then I get worried about the "advanced training instructors")

    And yes, I am a certified NRA Instructor and practiced competitor.
     
  12. indy36

    indy36 New Member

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    Take a look at this:

    Massad Ayoob image-3077131174.jpg
    Chris Costa (America's best sniper) image-486971072.jpg
    Larry Vickers image-386423102.jpg
    IPSC world champion image-1798102495.jpg
    IDPA Champions image-3211879707.jpg
    image-2794103705.jpg
    Team CZ image-2503592233.jpg
    US Army Action Shooting Team image-748526232.jpg
    US Marines image-1935547637.jpg
    SWAT image-266511257.jpg
    SpecOps image-3588676171.jpg
    Police image-2109143898.jpg
    Smith & Wesson Ad image-1163140450.jpg
    Glock Ad image-1305871397.jpg
    Shotgun News image-3067691642.jpg

    Notice anything?

    You see this: image-2987244324.jpg

    And not this: image-3698820469.jpg
    image-3081416783.jpg
    image-1528109494.jpg
    image-2323584754.jpg

    If 'straight thumbs' is good enough for the world's best in pistol craft then it's good enough for me.

    I got into a spitting match over a post like this on another forum. People don't like being 'advised' they are doing it wrong. Don't do what I say, look above. Thumbs forward is the hot ticket, but it's not new. I was taught it over 20 years ago at The Tactical Defense Institute in Ohio. If you don't like it that's cool. Just realize our US Armed Forces teach it, Gunsite and Thunder Ranch teach it, LEOs and SWAT use it, and the best competitors in the world use it. Not one uses 'crossed thumbs'. Why? Because when you cross thumbs your left (or right) palm cups and you don't have as much meat on the grip.

    The problem with thumb-over-thumb is that under stress it’s just all too easy, since you’re basically holding the gun wrapped in your fists, to begin muscling it, generating forces on the gun causing it to do a hula dance in recoil. Also, because wrapping the left thumb over the right opens up a gap between the heel and thumb of the left hand and the gun butt, the piece can twist in your hands under recoil, thus your group size explodes at speed. All those above have figured that out.

    Just passing along info...oh, and 'straight thumbs' is not a revolver thing. That's a different animal. I bow out on that topic.

    ...and I respect all of you. Do as you wish. 'Straight thumbs' isn't for everyone but it's worth a look.

    Here are some articles on the subject:

    www.cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=3977

    www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/tactics_training_combatg_100306/
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013