Thinking about getting a Grendel Upper.
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Definitely. I was really looking at building my current project up into a 6.5 Grendel, but reasons that I will share made me change gears just a bit.
First off, yes. You can use your existing lower, which is a great savings and one of the truly great things about the AR platform. God I love them... LOL
However, you will need a bifferent bolt, different bolt head and, obviously, a different chambered barrel. It's far easier to get a whole different upper and just swap them back and forth, but if cash is super tight, you can break down your existing upper and put those parts in to transform it into a Grendel. More work, and obviously with the removing of the barrel, don't expect your zero to be anywhere near where it was the last time you had your last caliber on that upper... LOL
My 'smith and I really discussed the 6.5 Grendel, and I was really leaning that way, but after some ballistic comparisons, it came down to the 6.5 Creedmoor by more than a nose to be honest. I guess the Grendel cartridge has a large primer, where the Creedmoor has a small primer. One of the differences is that the pressure builds SLIGHTLY slower with the smaller primer, so you get a more even ignition. More even ignition leads to more consistency between fired rounds, leads to the rounds heading down range the same way, leads to tighter groups if I do my part.
In any event, the Creedmoor has some great ballistics and the guru's from benchrest land have already done ALL the work for me, where the Grendel is pretty much brand new and there are only a couple of brands ( Hornady I think, Black Hills and some stuff from Les Baer ) that are making "factory ammo" for it. I saw a post where one guy bought like 500 rounds for like $600 from Les Baer, but his rationale was that it came with Lapua brass, so he could reload it. I don't know about you, but that is pretty pricey ammo in my book.
All in all, everything I initially looked at with the Grendel was positive, but once I got to discussing it with Brett, my gunsmith, we looked at the performance and advantages of the Creedmoor and it seemed to make better sense for me at this time.
Way too much information on the Grendel here.
If you end up going Grendel, please be sure to post the results and your build specs. I would love to see the project!
JD
First off, yes. You can use your existing lower, which is a great savings and one of the truly great things about the AR platform. God I love them... LOL
However, you will need a bifferent bolt, different bolt head and, obviously, a different chambered barrel. It's far easier to get a whole different upper and just swap them back and forth, but if cash is super tight, you can break down your existing upper and put those parts in to transform it into a Grendel. More work, and obviously with the removing of the barrel, don't expect your zero to be anywhere near where it was the last time you had your last caliber on that upper... LOL
My 'smith and I really discussed the 6.5 Grendel, and I was really leaning that way, but after some ballistic comparisons, it came down to the 6.5 Creedmoor by more than a nose to be honest. I guess the Grendel cartridge has a large primer, where the Creedmoor has a small primer. One of the differences is that the pressure builds SLIGHTLY slower with the smaller primer, so you get a more even ignition. More even ignition leads to more consistency between fired rounds, leads to the rounds heading down range the same way, leads to tighter groups if I do my part.
In any event, the Creedmoor has some great ballistics and the guru's from benchrest land have already done ALL the work for me, where the Grendel is pretty much brand new and there are only a couple of brands ( Hornady I think, Black Hills and some stuff from Les Baer ) that are making "factory ammo" for it. I saw a post where one guy bought like 500 rounds for like $600 from Les Baer, but his rationale was that it came with Lapua brass, so he could reload it. I don't know about you, but that is pretty pricey ammo in my book.
All in all, everything I initially looked at with the Grendel was positive, but once I got to discussing it with Brett, my gunsmith, we looked at the performance and advantages of the Creedmoor and it seemed to make better sense for me at this time.
Way too much information on the Grendel here.
If you end up going Grendel, please be sure to post the results and your build specs. I would love to see the project!
JD
Well, Upon further review - and all things considered. I am back to the Grendel. *shaking head sadly*
Forget what I posted above JW - The Grendel is going to be the way to go. After WAY TOO MUCH internet time, I decided to sit down with my 'smith at lunch today and go over some of the pros and cons, specifically what parts should I order. In no time, we arrived at the point that the Grendel is a more cost effective way to go and ammo will be readily available in the future as long as the rest of the world continues to use the 7.62 x 39 that I can scrounge for "emergency reloads" by pulling the bullet and necking down the cartridge. It won't be "custom" by any means, but it will be a never ending supply.
The 6.5 Grendel uses the standard .223 BCG, but with a 7.62 x 39 bolt head, which is pretty cheap compared to the Creedmoor. I knew I was doing too much reading and planning...
You will still need a barrel chambered for it, but you don't need anything else for your upper. So, effectively, you could get by with just a barrel and a new BCG buy - but having a spare upper is always nice.
I will be going with the Grendel and will avoiding a couple of "AR" build sites in the future... LOL
JD
Forget what I posted above JW - The Grendel is going to be the way to go. After WAY TOO MUCH internet time, I decided to sit down with my 'smith at lunch today and go over some of the pros and cons, specifically what parts should I order. In no time, we arrived at the point that the Grendel is a more cost effective way to go and ammo will be readily available in the future as long as the rest of the world continues to use the 7.62 x 39 that I can scrounge for "emergency reloads" by pulling the bullet and necking down the cartridge. It won't be "custom" by any means, but it will be a never ending supply.
The 6.5 Grendel uses the standard .223 BCG, but with a 7.62 x 39 bolt head, which is pretty cheap compared to the Creedmoor. I knew I was doing too much reading and planning...
You will still need a barrel chambered for it, but you don't need anything else for your upper. So, effectively, you could get by with just a barrel and a new BCG buy - but having a spare upper is always nice.
I will be going with the Grendel and will avoiding a couple of "AR" build sites in the future... LOL
JD
I'm at work, so I have to wait and get home to see, but Brett thinks that they both have the power to get the job done, and the range to reach out there. We talked about application and his comment was "This will put them down if you do your part, don't worry about that".
I'll let you know if I can find something on line before I head out, otherwise I will be running the calcs tonight before I order a new BCG....
Live and learn...
JD
EDIT: That .450 is no joke. Talk about a rhino stopper... LOL
I'll let you know if I can find something on line before I head out, otherwise I will be running the calcs tonight before I order a new BCG....
Live and learn...
JD
EDIT: That .450 is no joke. Talk about a rhino stopper... LOL
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108 Posts
Well I'm still swaying towards the Grendel...
I will most likely get a complete upper; just more convenient.
The reason why I was thinking Grendel... The kinetic energy and range supersedes that of the 5.56. At this point in time; range is a little more important to me. That is one of the reasons why I have opted not to go with the Beowolf .50.
What is the effective range of the .450 Bushmaster?
I will most likely get a complete upper; just more convenient.
The reason why I was thinking Grendel... The kinetic energy and range supersedes that of the 5.56. At this point in time; range is a little more important to me. That is one of the reasons why I have opted not to go with the Beowolf .50.
What is the effective range of the .450 Bushmaster?
About the same as the Beowulf - It's a close range truck stopper, not a reach out and knock em dead before they hear the sound type of round.
It's still pretty cool though. 250gr traveling at over 2000fps. Like getting hit in the chest with a sledgehammer... LOL
JD
It's still pretty cool though. 250gr traveling at over 2000fps. Like getting hit in the chest with a sledgehammer... LOL
JD
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108 Posts
I don't know all the ballistic facts on the Grendel "hopefully JD can help fill it in."
What I do know it that the Grendel is more accurate beyond 200yds vs. a 100yds and closer; most all Grendel ammo is boattail.
Also the Grendel is designed to fragment... It will not penetrate steel plates, like some 5.56 rounds. However, the kinetic energy of the Grendel will still knock someone down if they are wearing body amour even though the round fragments.
I read this in a magazine article. Unfortunate I’m not prepared enough and could not tell you which magazine it was in. I will hunt around for it later.
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1,198 Posts
Grendel/Creedmore/Lapua
JD,
I was hoping you'd finish that 6.5 Creedmore - to help me decide if I wanted one or not I have the Grendel, and highly recommend it. Then the Creedmore comes out...right after I got the Grendel.
I know DPMS is or is in the process of releasing a Creedmore, so I may not have to wait too long.
But then again....along comes the 6.5 x 47 Lapua!
Now which one? Do a search, there's a couple articles on the comaprisons between the 3.
Slo
JD,
I was hoping you'd finish that 6.5 Creedmore - to help me decide if I wanted one or not
I have the Grendel, and highly recommend it. Then the Creedmore comes out...right after I got the Grendel.I know DPMS is or is in the process of releasing a Creedmore, so I may not have to wait too long.
But then again....along comes the 6.5 x 47 Lapua!
Now which one? Do a search, there's a couple articles on the comaprisons between the 3.
Slo
Slow - I probably read some of the same articles you are talking about. I did TOO much damn research getting to this point... LOL
I love the Creedmoor, but I read that you could use the same upper and lower as the standard .223 unit. I asked about it at the shop, but I didn't make clear what my intention was when I was starting to buy parts. After much searching trying to buy my BCG, turns out that is COMPLETELY wrong information.
You need the AR-10 platform to be able to chamber the 6.5 Creedmoor, so I was completely wrong, by proxy, of my own research - which is usually my strong point... LOL
So, while an AR-10 is definitely on the list, for this build, I am going with the Grendel.
As for the Lapua - I love the cartridge, but the ammo is going to kill you in the pants pocket. Have to priced Lapua brass lately? Good Lawd that is some pricey stuff... LOL
But, I will continue the build and post the results, good, bad or ugly...
JD
I love the Creedmoor, but I read that you could use the same upper and lower as the standard .223 unit. I asked about it at the shop, but I didn't make clear what my intention was when I was starting to buy parts. After much searching trying to buy my BCG, turns out that is COMPLETELY wrong information.
You need the AR-10 platform to be able to chamber the 6.5 Creedmoor, so I was completely wrong, by proxy, of my own research - which is usually my strong point... LOL
So, while an AR-10 is definitely on the list, for this build, I am going with the Grendel.
As for the Lapua - I love the cartridge, but the ammo is going to kill you in the pants pocket. Have to priced Lapua brass lately? Good Lawd that is some pricey stuff... LOL
But, I will continue the build and post the results, good, bad or ugly...
JD
The Grendel CAN use the Lapua brass - it can also use 6PPC brass, necked up, it can also, in time of need, use standard 7.62x39 cased ammo, necked down to fit the correct size bullet.
One of the new selling points about the weapon platform for me personally.
JD
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1,198 Posts
Ahhh...yes, some folks missed that same point. I have both platforms that I can build off of, .223 and .308, but was still a bit undecided as to continuing to upgrade the Grendel or build up a Creedmore. Then I see the Lapua come out and that just messed everything all up
As for the brass, don't tell anyone...but I think that they (the Fins) think that it is really GOLD or something
My long range bolt gun is a .338 Lapua Mag, and I'm about ready to 2nd mortgage the house to keep feeding it But it's such a nice piece of "KIT"
And I can hit the broadside of the barn or anything else that you care to put on that same broadside - the farthest hit (on target - actually what I aimed at) through my "telescopic optic" - at 1600 meters. So I'm hoping that the Grendel/Creedmore/Lapua whichever one comes out on top will do the job at the intermediate ranges. And here I was hoping that you'd be the test-mule on that one
Slo
Wow, you must use anti-cant devices so your telescopic sight stays over your barrel.Ahhh...yes, some folks missed that same point. I have both platforms that I can build off of, .223 and .308, but was still a bit undecided as to continuing to upgrade the Grendel or build up a Creedmore. Then I see the Lapua come out and that just messed everything all up
As for the brass, don't tell anyone...but I think that they (the Fins) think that it is really GOLD or something
But it's such a nice piece of "KIT"
And here I was hoping that you'd be the test-mule on that one
Slo
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1,198 Posts
No way...I searched all the Mall Ninja sites on-line and off-line to find only the finest of pieces of kit to solve that problem. And I'm proud to say that it was designed/manufactured in China, but only by the finest illegal aliens (Mexicans), who thought they were getting on the INS boat. Yes, inspected by, signed, sealed, delivered by Juan Hung Lo - aka #69. It was advertized on one of those "As-Seen-On-TV" infomercials, with the Vice-Grip brand on it - it's called the Anti-Canti-Lever
But of course, most gun experts all know that the canted front sights on AK's and AR's were deliberately designed to offset the application of canted telescopic optics.
Stop! You're killing me over here.... My office mates are going to wonder what the hell is so funny and want me to forward it to them. All of them are Liberal Demo-Commies, so that won't do any good.... LOLNo way...I searched all the Mall Ninja sites on-line and off-line to find only the finest of pieces of kit to solve that problem. And I'm proud to say that it was designed/manufactured in China, but only by the finest illegal aliens (Mexicans), who thought they were getting on the INS boat. Yes, inspected by, signed, sealed, delivered by Juan Hung Lo - aka #69. It was advertized on one of those "As-Seen-On-TV" infomercials, with the Vice-Grip brand on it - it's called the Anti-Canti-Lever
But of course, most gun experts all know that the canted front sights on AK's and AR's were deliberately designed to offset the application of canted telescopic optics.
Ah Slo - Luv you man....
JD
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1,128 Posts
My father has just finished up a 6.5 Grendel. Amazing rifle!!! 24" stainless ER Shaw bull barrel on a DPMS upper. After the first 100 rounds went through it, it was shooting 5 round "bughole" groups at the 100 yard range with factory Alexander Arms ammo. As far as reloading for it, brass is still scarce, at least in my part of the country. Lapua I think is all that's out there right now, but I have been told by the folks at Midway that Hornady will be distributing some brass for the 6.5 Grendel very soon. Oh yeah, recoil is amazing soft, just hardly enough to buck you off the scope picture. Shoots like a .223 on steroids. I want one soon....
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