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I don't engage in registered Shoots, not because I don't want too, just the time commitment it takes be and stay active. I have shot clays for several years Trap, Sporting, 5-Stand, and some Skeet. I am an 80% Trap shooter, 65% Sporting and 5-Stand. Skeet, I haven't done it enough to have a good feel for my average. However, a couple years ago I wanted to try Skeet; and at our local club is a certified instructor. He is the, or one of the highest ranked certified in the state. He took me out for an hour (no charge, friends) and I will say - he really caught a bunch of my bad stuff. I think he would be $75/hr well spent. I am going to have him give me and my boys some schooling.

I have never really pressed him for advise because he is an instructor and I just wouldn't feel right asking without paying.

On the other hand there is an abundance who "think" they can teach and, are on about everyone, trying to "teach". I commend these guys, their intentions are good and their heart is in the right place, but sometimes these guys can do as much harm as good. I found that out during that "lesson". My friend corrected me and it really helped, but what he corrected was something someone "taught" me.

So, I think there are some out there who are not "world champions" but fully understand the mechanics and do have the skills to teach.
 
And - my comments were not targeted at you bobski, I have heard only good reports about you from someone who has shot with you.
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
no offense taken.
as all know, i never toot my horn.
i am glad you realize that there is a difference between good shots and good teachers. sometimes the 2 merge. and when it does, its a bonus.
none of the ftf shooters have seen me perform for pay. if they did, id be a whole different person.
ftf shoots are just intro's. so if those that have been here can picture what they learned from just an intro....one should only imagine what theyd learn if i was hired.
one of the murphy's laws of teaching is......
"the one thing you knew that allows you to hit birds will be the one thing youre asked to change."
:>
so true!
 
Deg, you are fortunate. Most of the 'certified skeet instructors' that I have seen can give some fundamental instructions to new shooters - but nothing beyond that, and most can't correct learned bad behavior as yours did.
It is rare that a really good shooter has the teaching skills to pass his knowledge on to the Joe-average numbskulls (like me).
My biggest regret in my shooting 'career' is not getting some quality instructions. I might have been a competitor instead of a donator - but it sure was fun while it lasted.
 
Discussion starter · #26 · (Edited)
which brings up a point....is it his knowledge, or was it learned knowledge?
i/e: if nssa holds a cert course, SOMEONE wrote that course. so....whoever wrote the course is who is teaching the course.
follow me?
and the rule of thumb these days is....pad the resume' and whoever gets the most awards and trophies gets the head nodd.
which boils down once again to.....great shooters arent always great teachers.
see the loop?

its like getting a drivers license. the dmv is for the most part pretty much the same wherever you go. so, everyone drives the same no matter what state youre in. skeet and trap has adopted this method of control for the game.
its their way or the highway.

so tell me...do baseball or basketball teams train like that?
no.
each team is unique. each coach is unique.
and this is my purpose in life.
skeet should be unique to the person, not to an organization.
people should be competing against people, not instruction methods against instruction methods.
whats happened to the sport is you have little benders all shooting against little shimas or ash'es in skeet.
and you got level 1/2/3 instructors all teaching the same criteria nationwide. theres nothing unique.
anyone following me?
and to deviate from that format would mean losing a qualification. so people teach what is taught them or lose the ticket.
its like making cheery pies all tasting the same.
some may say, whats the problem with that?
well...just look at the sport. at the world shoot, how many ties for 1st place with 100 straights are there?
how many of those people are all the same cherry pies..i mean shooters?
and they are all baked in the same oven with the same ingredients.

does anyone have any idea how many different ways there is to shoot?
you dont see that anymore because the lure to win at any cost has clouded the sport. so...in a sense, you have a handful of people steering the boat and putting all the same gun, same length bbl, same brand gun, same glasses, same pouches, same calls, same stances, same everything into every shooter, to a point that if someone outside this fabricated loop shows up...they are treated like outsiders and frowned upon....as 'not one of the guys.'
ive seen it.
 
I was really lucky when I started shooting skeet. I had been an avid hunter for many years before I ever shot a skeet off a portable spring trap. At the time I found my way to a skeet range I was a purely instinctive shooter. But I was able to compete with the hacks that saw me as an easy victim with my Wingmaster. I won a good deal of money that was really a blessing, it allowed me to buy a Citori.

One day an old man asked if I wanted to shoot for $20 round. The USOC hat he was wearing meant nothing to me. At that point I was just a cocky ******* who thought I would wear the old man out in an hour or so. The match began he was a regular hustler. If I broke 24 he broke 25. He let me win often enough to keep me in the game. By the time the sun set I was out $600.

I really didn't lose $600. During the match the old gentleman began to like me. He could see I was doing very well with no training at all. In fact, I didn't have a clue to what I was doing. He gave me many lessons for free. He taught me how to hone my skills so well I could have shot a decent round blindfolded.

The only thing he couldn't teach me is how to teach others. He was probably the first person I had run into in my life that didn't just try to run me off. He passed away before he could pass the gift of teaching on to me.
 
The only thing he couldn't teach me is how to teach others. He was probably the first person I had run into in my life that didn't just try to run me off. He passed away before he could pass the gift of teaching on to me.
I do not believe that the 'ability' to teach can be taught. I know a lot of people that are great at what they do but couldn't teach it to anyone. I have a lot of respect for those that can, but I am one that can't.
 
Discussion starter · #32 · (Edited)
teaching: changes behaviour. it makes the light go off in your head. teaching usually involves teachers forcing students to answer questions making them learn and experience the answer as a result of their own ambition.

instruction: is someone yelling down your throat and guiding one thru repetition and redundant habit. i/e: bootcamp. this is your weapon. this is how you kill. this is your helmet. this is a parachute. you wear it like this. put your finger on the trigger like this and pull it, etc...
either you get it or you dont.

shooting courses are instruction.
but instructors who have been taught the art of teaching are jewels. they know when to inject extra needed boosts.

im not a teacher in the real world, but im married to one, have a family full of them, and was taught some pretty interesting courses in both army and navy that equal them. i can make you say things you dont want to say.

the next step beyond teaching is persuasion, interviewing, examination, and interrogation.

those talents are for tuff cases...none of which ive had to use yet in skeet/trap. though i have considered water torture on a few.
 
When you attend and enter these big shoots no body makes you buy into the options, and if you are not one of the top shooters you would be a fool to spend the money. Just enter the shoot in your class or yardage and have fun.
Watch these top shooters and check out their equipment, you might see something that will help your shooting.
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
but....200 others do as well, and then only one wins. thats called a cash cow.

and watching pros equipment and mimicking them is like watching mario andretti drive and youll win the grand prix.
 
When you attend and enter these big shoots no body makes you buy into the options, and if you are not one of the top shooters you would be a fool to spend the money. Just enter the shoot in your class or yardage and have fun.
Watch these top shooters and check out their equipment, you might see something that will help your shooting.
Almost every club that has a trap field has a couple shooters that will bust a 100 clays without a miss. Why spend a bunch of money to get something you can get for free by being good company. We have a couple shooters who never seem to miss at trap. I shoot with them every now and then. They are willing to point out every error in your form. It gets frustrating sometimes but I take it with good humor. I know without any doubt they only want me to better. People who complain about them we just tell them we have other things to do. We have two mules that need breaking now. Get busy!

I used to do all the mule breaking. This year someone else is going to have to man up. Everyone wants to hunt off the mules. Someone will break them or we will hire a cowboy out of the club budget.
 
When you attend and enter these big shoots no body makes you buy into the options, and if you are not one of the top shooters you would be a fool to spend the money. Just enter the shoot in your class or yardage and have fun.
Watch these top shooters and check out their equipment, you might see something that will help your shooting.
Unless things have changed a lot since I quit contributing, and I doubt that from the shoot programs that I read, every big shoot has a mandatory purse built into the entry fee. That is where the Cash Cow concept comes in play.
 
Almost every club that has a trap field has a couple shooters that will bust a 100 clays without a miss. Why spend a bunch of money to get something you can get for free by being good company. We have a couple shooters who never seem to miss at trap. I shoot with them every now and then. They are willing to point out every error in your form. It gets frustrating sometimes but I take it with good humor. I know without any doubt they only want me to better. People who complain about them we just tell them we have other things to do. We have two mules that need breaking now. Get busy!

QUOTE]
I have always tried to shoot with the best shots available. I may not learn anything from him (or her) but I will always concentrate more, trying to do my best in the company of my betters. That alone always helped me.
However, back when I was shooting pretty well, Kim Rhode kicked my butt while playing with Barbie dolls between rounds. She was impressive even as a very young girl. True story.
 
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