The Survival Shotgun

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by JTJ, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Mongo

    Mongo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    l've never had a 16 guage. l'm starting to think l should have posted this in the Random Thoughts Thread.
     
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  2. PaBushMan

    PaBushMan Well-Known Member

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    I have a mossberg 20 gauge pump with select choke. It's chambered for 2 3/4 or 3 inch shells. Had it since i was 12. Im better with it than any of my other shotguns. I would choose it if i had only one choice. My others are a remington 31 12 ga modified pump. Ithaca 16 gauge featherweight a stevens 320 and a 16 ga single shot. chambered in 2 1/2 inch. She's an oldle. 1918 vintage.
     

  3. TelstaR

    TelstaR Well-Known Member

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    the thing about making plans is that you do not want to construct your plan around the "better than nothing" mindset. If I am going to assign a particular weapon for crisis mitigation, its not going to be some single shot. I am not a pilot and to that end, absolute weight and absolute size is not critical. If I want to assign a long gun toward a survival system, its probably going to be a lever gun.

    If all you have is a single shot shotgun, well.. you already have your answer. You run what you brung.
     
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  4. RaySendero

    RaySendero Well-Known Member

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    Yep, Much wisdom here. If you have enough time to read and participate in this thread - You have the time to plan and prepare in the best way possible.
     
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  5. Ozark Hillman

    Ozark Hillman New Member

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    I think your location would dictate the best gun for the job. In my area the Missouri Ozark region I would be content with a decent 22 rimfire rifle of some sort. My choice would fall between my single shot marlin mainly because its short and lightweight, also the option of shooting shorts is something that I like. My other choice would be a Ruger 10/22. We have a few black bears and some wild hogs here locally but I would personally feel fine with a 22 rimfire.
     
  6. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A record grizzly bear a long while back was killed with a 22 long by an Indian woman who was running a trap line. She tried to hide but the bear caught her scent. She knew exactly where to place the shot and then followed up with more "to pay the insurance."
     
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  7. RaySendero

    RaySendero Well-Known Member

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    Yes, to location.
    But, the type of survival situation could also dictate that you would be best to go quite (i.e subsonic and silenced).
     
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  8. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A suppressor reduces sound level to around 85 db. Not exactly quiet but hearing safe. Still 85 db will not carry far. I have legal suppressors for 22 lr and 38 spl/9mm. 158 grain 38 spl at 1000 fps in a suppressed single shot rifle has some power. 200+ grain are available. So are 000 buckshot for subsonic ball loads. That would take small game with minimal damage. 158 grain 357 at 1800 fps will do pretty well on bigger critters but wont be quiet.
     
  9. Ozark Hillman

    Ozark Hillman New Member

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    I had a cousin named Emery that was a old man when I was a kid. I remember my dad telling that Emery would often take a 22 rifle and what he could pack in a coffee can that he also cooked in and would often spent 2 weeks to a month at a time in the woods. He dug roots and ate off what he killed and what plants he come across. He was a tough old bird.
     
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  10. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you know what you are doing you can do more than just survive.
     
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  11. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Well-Known Member

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    The TOZ-106/MTs 20-04
    sounds like it would do the job.
    If only they sold this russian made 20gauge shotgun in the USA.
    download.jpeg-1.jpg
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOZ-106

    I think with some work a guy could modify a old 1950's era boltaction shotgun could be modeled to resemble a TOZ-106.
    Trim back the barrel till its still leagle and have a box mag repeater, folding stock and a side mount ak-47 type scope mount, or better yet a scout scope?
    Or a reflex sight on a scout scope rail?

    Another boltaction shotgun idea.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  12. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Most of the bush preppers are looking for simplicity and the ability to use sub caliber adapters. The bolt action would be rugged and easy to clean but would not take the adapters. (I would take a bolt rifle over a semi in a no support situation.) A 12 can fire any smaller gauge with the appropriate adapter along with many center and rim fire cartridges. The Doubles run a close second in popularity. I like the doubles even though they are heavier or maybe because they are heavier as the light 12's have a lot of recoil. I would choose a double 12 over a single 12 any day. There is a lot to say for a 2nd quick shot. I have a do all 12 gauge pump but it wont take adapters and now where as easy to clean. My single 20 is not bad as far as recoil and has screw in chokes. The single 410 is the one that gets the most play time.
     
  13. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have been looking at the the Chiappa Double Badger in 22/410. I would have to decide between 22lr or 22 mag. You can sleeve the 22 mag chamber and shoot 22lr or shorts. One drawback is the 410 is full choke (.395") and while you can use slugs you lose significant velocity going through the choke. Of course you could forget the slugs and carry a decent handgun or the 410 would take a 327 Federal adapter. Would also not be able to run my .40 ball loads. .375" 3 ball might work. I also have some light 45 Colt shot loads (1/3 oz #8) that would work on squirrel out to 20 yards.
     
  14. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I got a good look at one of the Midland 12 gauge singles today$150 with a bag and it had a screw in choke. Nice gun and well worth the money but shooting a 12 gauge that light is asking for pain. It did have a decent looking recoil pad but it will still hurt. I think I will stick with 20 gauge and 410.
     
  15. SK2344

    SK2344 Active Member

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    I recently picked up the ATI NOMAD one shot folding shotgun for less than $100, just to have some fun with. I got the 20 Gauge with the 18 1/2" barrel. I also have a Mossberg 20 Gauge Shockwave! Very well made for a cheap fun gun!
     
  16. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Look at the 410 too. I made some basic loading tools and they are fun to play with. I also made tools for the 20 gauge. With singles you can glue the overshot card and dont have to crimp although I do have roll crimp tools that work in a drill. Chedite 209 primers are cheap.
     
  17. Chuck Roberts

    Chuck Roberts Active Member

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    If I was a Bush pilot, I’d want shotty with a few slugs for bear protection and and a supply of # 5 or 6 shot shells for food scavenging, but that’s about the only scenario I would prefer a shotgun to a 22 for survival.
    About any other scenario I can think of where I was on foot, and I’d rather have a .22
     
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  18. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That was the original premise of this thread. The 22lr is great but if you have dangerous animals you better have something to put them down. I had a 22lr over 20 gauge that would be ideal but the barrels were not regulated and were too far off even at 20 yards. It would have required cutting and welding to align them. This is why I am leery of the Chiappa Double Badger. I would have to try it before I bought it.
    Someone suggested carrying Minishells for a 12 gauge which would reduce the recoil and a small amount of weight. Roughly equivalent to a 20 gauge but could still have the power of the 12 for a Brenneke slug in bear country. I can make my own minishells. Makes the 12 gauge a little more feasible.
     
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  19. Double20

    Double20 Active Member

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    I'm not sure that this information is correct. I don't see how you would LOSE velocity through a full choke. If anything, you would gain velocity due to extra pressure (equating to slightly more powder burn) generated by the slug swaging down through the tight choke vs less pressure when going through a more open choke. Either way, the velocity difference would be negligible between an improved cylinder and full choke. The recommendation to use a more open choke for slugs has nothing to do with velocity but rather accuracy. The theory is that a more open choke will deform the slug less than a tighter choke thus giving you better consistency and accuracy. However, it has been widely publicized and accepted that foster type slugs (think Remington Slugger or Winchester Rifled Slug) are undersized to allow for the use of them in full choke guns. They have hollow bases that will flare out when quickly accelerated by the powder to complete the seal between the slug and the bore to prevent gases from going around or by them as they travel down the bore. The skirts on the hollow base of the (relatively) soft lead slug then swag (squeeze) down when they go through the choke area before exiting the muzzle. Most of the time, they will still be more accurate in a more open choke gun but not always.

    My Dad has a Stevens .22 LR over .410 shotgun that I used when I was growing up back in the 80s. I grew up in Ohio which at the time allowed only shotgun slugs or muzzleloaders for deer hunting. The .410 using slugs was legal at the time. My Dad bought some slugs for it and using the open sights on top of the .22 barrel, we got it to shoot really good groups at 50 yards. It was a full choke barrel. I don't remember what brand of slugs we were using (might have been Federal but can't say for sure) but they were simple Foster type slugs. Dad ultimately decided to stick with a 12 gauge or 20 gauge for deer hunting as he was concerned about the small size of the .410 slug would make for longer tracking jobs if we used it for deer.

    So fast forward to the following fall. I would hunt groundhogs and squirrels a lot on a farmers land near our house. I took the .22/.410 and loaded a slug in the .410 barrel. The idea was that if I had a clear head shot on a groundhog, I would use the .22. If all I had was a body shot on the groundhog, I would use the slug. I would use the .22 for squirrel. So on my way along the edge of the woods, a big fox squirrel jumped up on a tree trunk about 30 yards away. I made sure (or so I thought) the selector was set to the top barrel so that I would be shooting the .22. Being that I was early in my hunting and shooting career and that I was shooting offhand and using open sights, I wasn't confident in my ability to head shoot the squirrel. I took aim at his chest right behind his front leg and squeezed the trigger. Instead of the crack and no recoil I was expecting there was a boom and some recoil. That fox squirrel was knocked though the air spinning like the rotor on a helicopter before hitting the ground. I then realized I had shot the lower .410 barrel instead of the .22 barrel. When I picked up the squirrel, I had hit him exactly where I was aiming. So our .410 with full choke would shoot slugs very accurately.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
  20. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The 410/22lr shoot together better than the 20/22lr in most cases. My 20/22lr was about 8" apart at 20 yards.
    A guy had a 12 gauge 28" barrel full choke single and fired a slug through it over a chronograph prior to cutting the barrel to 18.5". He wanted to see how much velocity he lost by shortening the barrel. To his surprise and mine too he gained 300 fps in the shortened barrel. Only conclusion I can make is at 28" the shell had used most if not all the expanding gasses just as a 22lr loses velocity in longer barrels. Hitting the restriction retarded the speed. It would be interesting to see if there is a difference in the same length barrel with and without the choke.