The russians invented the Ak but the chinese perfected it your opinion

Discussion in 'AK & SKS Discussion' started by CAMCHAMPION1988, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. CAMCHAMPION1988

    CAMCHAMPION1988 New Member

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    Polytech and Norinco what's your opinion.
     
  2. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    The Soviets copied and modified the STG44. To many similarities to be coincidence. The Chinese copied everyone!!!
     

  3. nfafan

    nfafan New Member

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    Meh, you could argue that the Finns perfected the AKs with their VALMETs, and the Isrealis perfected the VALMETs with their Galils.

    Or that the Yugos perfected the AKs with their M70AB familiy.

    Between a PolyTech or a Norinco - I'll take the Keng's-imported Polytech.

    Yes, I know they were supposedly built at the same arsenal or whatever, but Keng's family are marketing-focused and paid off enough of the right people to finish the guns nicer, finish the Chu wood better, make fatter pgrips, add the spring-loaded f-pin, whatever. Just something about the cosmetics of a Keng's PolyTech vs anyone else, including my all-matching Polish build.

    But hey - all AKs are good!
     
  4. nfafan

    nfafan New Member

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  5. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    NO. What is an STG44/22? Must be a Chinese POS.
    Sturmgewehr 44
    Loose the Arf.com, That is advertising!
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2011
  6. nfafan

    nfafan New Member

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    Nien! It's German Sport Gun's latest offering in a .22 - the long awaited MP44/STG44!

    Only way it could be a better .22 would be if it were a .22LR FAMAS, or AUG, or G3, or BAR, or Garand, or L85, or Sterling Mk6, or FG42, or M14S, or SKS.

    Chris from ATI is a regular at the GSG-specific subforum over at that other board...
     
  7. Pjj342

    Pjj342 New Member

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    I cant say, since I wasnt there. But Mr. Kalishnikov has said in interviews that the ak47 was not based on the stg44. I believe him to a point, since outside looks pretty similar. I dont believe, from what ive seen, that the internals have any resemblance at all. The ak47 is more of a stg44 chassis (but way simpler) with SKS workings.
     
  8. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Do you really think a sgt., a tanker could have invented something that Firearms engineers could not? The Soviets could not duplicate the tilting bolt, nor the recoil system. The design was simplified, that is itself was a feat. They had early models back to 1942. Even in 1946 Kalashnikovs design was rejected for being to complex. The Soviets captured rifles in 1942, The sgt. was injured in 1942. Coincidence from a purged country? Naaa. The M60 was M38 technology.
     
  9. nfafan

    nfafan New Member

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    I'm sure the Russians copied the idea of the "intermediate" rifle-cal cartridge from the 8mm Kurz of the MP44/STG44
     
  10. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    talk to a russian and you will learn that a simple russian farmer invented space flight, the telephone, cars, aircraft, the ballpoint pen, personal computers on and on...

    yes they copied the stg44
     
  11. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    But, Al Gore invented the internet! ;)
     
  12. airline

    airline New Member

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    Kalashnikov began his career as a weapon designer while in a hospital after he was shot in the shoulder during the Battle of Bryansk.[12] After tinkering with a submachine gun design, he entered a competition for a new weapon that would chamber the 7.62x41mm cartridge developed by Elisarov and Semin in 1943 (the 7.62x41mm cartridge predated the current 7.62x39mm M1943). A particular requirement of the competition was the reliability of the firearm in the muddy, wet, and frozen conditions of the Soviet front line. Kalashnikov designed a carbine, strongly influenced by the American M1 Garand, that lost out to the Simonov design (scaled down PTRS-41), that later became the SKS semi-automatic carbine. At the same time, the Soviet Army was interested in developing a true assault rifle employing a shortened M1943 round. The first such weapon was presented by Sudayev in 1944, but trials found it to be too heavy.[13] A new design competition was held two years later where Kalashnikov and his design team submitted an entry. It was a gas-operated rifle which had a breech-block mechanism similar to his 1944 carbine, and a curved 30-round magazine.
     
  13. Pjj342

    Pjj342 New Member

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    Thats straight off wikipedia. From what it says, the gas system and exterior lay out are from the stg44, and the locking lugs are from the m1garand, and the safety is from the remington model 8. The kalashnikov team had alot of examples to play with.

    Maybe the general external shape and gas system, and short rifle cartrige are from the stg44, but other ideas came from a few different rifles, probably more than they mentioned. There is just not the complexity of parts in the ak to make an stg44 the absolute inspiration.
     
  14. airline

    airline New Member

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    Most likely this is true; however no one has come up with anything like the AK.
    And the fact is that this particular design has been proven to be the most reliable and inexpensive to make. There is no compare with the AR15 which jams all the time and 3 times more expensive.
     
  15. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    Aw CRAP! I thought the internet was just a series of tubes...


    As to the AK and perfection, why would you want to

    ruin a perfectly good gun by perfecting it?

    It's a meat and potatoes(yes, the Russians DID invent meat,

    but an Irish immigrant, Yagonov Sergeyovich Murphy, invented

    potatoes...) gun, with loose tolerances, fair accuracy, immaculate

    dependability, and imperfections. It's the way the gun was designed.


    Rolls Royce once set about, in a surgically sterile environment,

    in an attempt to build a "perfect transmission". No friction,

    perfectly cast parts, everything micro-smoothed to the last

    ten thousandth of an inch, and lubricated with premium oils

    of the highest standards. The only problem, is their

    masterpiece of engineering wouldn't propel a car.

    It wouldn't move at all. Turns out friction and imperfection

    were needed, in a minimal way, to aid in locomotion.

    The point? IMHO, perfection is over-rated...
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011
  16. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    I love com-blok rifles. You can do anything to them in the field, and they work! Still does not change the "invention"! Hey! Barry Satoro, or Barak Obama, (same person) has brought world peace! [​IMG]
     
  17. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    I dunno, my Norinco's OK, but I just love the

    undramatic simplicity of my Russian SKS.
     
  18. R3c0n5n1p3r

    R3c0n5n1p3r New Member

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    China made a cheap copy nothing beats a true Russian ak47. And In my opinion sks's are jokes and I wouldn't shoot 1 if it was handed to me.
     
  19. Trez

    Trez Well-Known Member

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    I gotta ask why is the SKS a joke?? Its was my first rifle and still my favorite.... I mistreat mine all the time, and its never failed me..... :confused:
     
  20. 1stMarine

    1stMarine New Member

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    I agree with your opinion on aks, but you really need to widen your views. The sks is a fun cheap gun to shoot. Wouldn't use one on an op, but fun to shoot nontheless.

    Never Forget.