The Official MMA Thread

Discussion in 'The Club House' started by Dillinger, Nov 12, 2008.

  1. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    Okay, with the biggest fight card ever in the history of Mixed Martial Arts on this weekend, I thought it was time to have an official discussion thread about all things MMA.

    Let's get a few ground rules out of the way.

    It's called MMA - It is NOT called UFC, Ultimate Fighting, or TUF

    The UFC is the largest organization in the sport, Dana White is a f**king genius and we have him, and the Fertitas, for going $40 Million Dollars IN DEBT to get the sport back into the mainstream where we can watch events, both free and on PPV, back in the United States after our politicians felt the need to ban it.

    Give the UFC their proper respect, but they do not have all the best fighters, nor are they the only "game" in town.

    Any MMA discussion is welcome, but let's give proper credit where it is due please.

    So, now that we have that out of the way - UFC 91 is this weekend.

    If you have been living under a rock, Randy Couture will be defending his Heavyweight Title against Brock Lesnar. Yes, the WWE guy. Turns out the guy is one hell of a former wrestler, NCAA, and while he is 2-1 in MMA competition, the guy is definitely a beast.

    Randy on the other hand, is 44, going on 45, and is probably still one of the best tacticians in the game.

    Who's going to win? I have no idea - but I do have some opinions on the undercard fights....

    Fight of the Night, in my mind, is going to be Nate Quarry versus Demien Maia. Nate is a very good fighter, one hell of a good ground and pound fighter, but Maia may be the best BJJ Black Belt I have ever seen - and I have honestly seen, and rolled with, a few of them. Maia wins this fight with a slick submission. Possibly Submission of the Night

    Gonzaga versus Hendricks is a battle of outsiders looking in. Gonzaga broke Coutures arm with one high kick and he knocked out the mighty Cro-Cop with a head kick from hell. However he has proven to have little, if any heart, when someone takes a fight to him. Werdum practically forced him to answer the bell out of fear of being embarassed as a coward, only to get stopped in round 2 in what can only be described as a beatdown. Hendricks is a first timer to the octagon who is 15-4, with his last list of wins over 5 guys who probably have day jobs and fight on small shows with a hope of making it big. In other words, this is his shot at the show and he got here beating guys who have little to no UFC level talent. Hendricks' strength is ground work, where Gonzaga has a black Belt. My prediction, Hendricks is being fed to the wolves. Gonzaga loses and he is probably out of the UFC, or resigned to finish out his contract on undercards. This will probably be a pretty easy one for Gonzaga.

    Amir Sodollah, who won last season's episode of TUF, is out with an injury. His fight has been cancelled and one of the undercard fights has been moved up to the main event. I'd like to see Hazellet/Mccrory - but the UFC match makers seem to LOVE Jorge Gurgel, so we are going to see another "high energy" nothing really happening match and Gurgel will probably lose another fight in the UFC, though to be honest Aaron Riley hasn't had much luck in the Octagon, so maybe they are feeding him to Gurgel to get him back "on track" since they obviously aren't going to cut him....

    Florian versus Stephenson is really a matter of who wants it more and who wants to stay an also ran in the 155 category.

    Florian is better on the ground with his jits, but Stephenson is a good wrestler with a strong ground & pound. Florian is famous for having some of the sharpest elbows in the game and usually gets at least one warning about using them from the guard on the top of his opponents head. If Stephenson gets cut early, look for him to get pissed, get over aggressive and get caught by Florian. If they stand and trade, Florian has been training Muay Thai in Thailand and brought an instructor back to Mark Dellagrotto's camp in Boston, who also happens to have some of the best strikers outside of American Top Team. I predict Florian takes this one by submission....

    So, there are my picks, what do you guys think?
     
  2. ravenwolf

    ravenwolf New Member

    16
    0
    0
    I already got my ticket (living room) for this week end,and your right lesner is the size of a damn refrigerator . I gotta say i was kinda impressed with his mma development last fight all the training looks paying off. Im stumped as to who put money on. Rc may be getting up there in age for a fighter but he is still a tough sob
     

  3. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    I won $100 on Couture when he came out if his first retirement against Big Timmah. Everyone said he was washed up and couldn't hang with the current level of fighter. Needless to say, as I am getting up there in age, I kind of admire the hell out of the guy, his antics over the last year making him whine like a little girl with a skinned knee aside.

    Lesnar looked really good against Herring, but Herring's best days are behind him and there were several ways to submit Lesnar from the bottom if Herring would have used the, supposed, brown ( I think ? ) belt in jits that he has. Lesnar does that same thing with Mir again, or Nog, or Werdum, or probably even Gonzaga and he gets subbed.

    Randy fights well in the clinch and he is stronger than people give him credit for. Gonzaga outweighed him by like 20 or 30 pounds and Randy scouped him and dumped him so hard Gonzaga got his nose broke by either 1) Randy's head or 2) his own knee.

    This fight is probably going to the ground and Randy has like 2, or maybe three, submissions in his whole career. That said, Lesnar is ripe for another submission loss.

    Personally I want Randy to win and win big - early stoppage or submission. A guy with a 2-1 record becoming World Champ would be a non-stop running joke for ESPN and the mainstream market. However, whoever wins has to fight the winner of Big Nog / Mir - both of whom are masters on the ground - so Saturday's championship winner better get used to fighting off their backs, get used to escaping punishing submission holds and better learn to defend both their legs and their necks...

    Should be a good fight card though.....
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2008
  4. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

    9,624
    1
    0
    All the big names that Dana has pulled from outside have fared less than impressively. Crocop was hugely disappointing. Herring equally disappointing.

    Lesnar, despite the hype, has yet to be truly tested. His tapout to Mir proved that he has alot to learn. But he was a wrestler with no concept of jiujitsu at the time. He's come a long way despite having to face that loss after all the hype that came with him.

    What works out for him in this fight is that they are both wrestlers. And guys who started out in one discipline tend to resort to that when the chips are down.

    I will never write off Randy, simply because he keeps proving detractors wrong.

    I know this is billed as the biggest fight in recorded history, but I frankly had more passion about Ortiz-Liddell, and Ortiz-Shamrock had the stuff that great fights are made of.
     
  5. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    I would agree and disagree with you. Some of the names pulled in from Japan ( PRIDE ) didn't do well in the Octagon, some have done quite well. Wanderlai, despite his age and the sheer number bare knuckle fights he has had over the years, has proven very durable and an exciting fighter. Rampage, despite flipping out after his loss to Forrest, has proven to be a top competitor. Herring's best days were behind him when he was signed, but he is a good gate keeper. Cro Cop was a disappointment, but signing him broke PRIDE and gave the UFC the ability to get all the other guys mentioned, minus the hiding Fedor. Obviously Anderson Silva hasn't disappointed and he was a PRIDE guy for awhile, though he was also King of the Cage. So, it's been hit and miss. Japan didn't test for steroids either - which may, or may not, have had an effect on some fighters....

    I would agree, but his athleticism is a huge attribute. Mir said he hits like a truck and that punch he put on Herring was no joke. But, watch that punch on Herring and how FAST he recovers and charges ahead. That can't be coached, that is God given genetics.

    As for fighting Randy - Randy is an enigma, and everytime he seems to be SUCH an under-dog, he comes out and destroys the guy. Gonzaga was supposed to take him right down and submit him in the first 2 minutes of the fight. That was supposed to be Randy's toughest ground test yet. *yawn* That fight was a Gonzaga beatdown.

    Lesnar/Couture will be the most purchased PPV, only because of the names involved, not because of the talent of the overall skill match up between the two headliners.

    Either way it's a good card, but watch the Maia/Quarry fight closely - that is going to be SICK!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2008
  6. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

    9,624
    1
    0
    All valid points. Still, in all, for the people who follow this, Couture- Fedor is the fight that true fans, and Randy himself wanted.
     
  7. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    Agreed - But it's a pipe dream. Fedor's management ( M1 ) will NEVER let him fight in a cage, plus they want co-promotional money for any card Fedor fights on.

    Dana has said he will PROBABLY NEVER do a co-promotion with another outfit but the UFC will ABSOLUTELY NEVER do a co-promotion with M1 because their list of demands is too high.

    Rnady has one, maybe two, good years left, and his current contract will put him into that capsule.

    Fedor isn't signed to anyone outright, except M1, but if he fights for anyone outside of Affliction, because of the $2M they paid for his "services" prior to the Big Timmah fight, Afflication gets the right to be included. It's totally crooked...

    So, we fans are going to have to hope for a Fedor/Barnett fight to Fedor actually get challenged and see if he is the BEST there is out there.

    Arlovski has a chance, but his ground work has looked lazy lately, and with Fedor, lazy gets your assed armbarred or choked in record time...

    Still, for the $800K that they paid Timmah for that DEBACLE, I would fight Fedor and I damn sure would last longer than 36 F**KING seconds! That fight was an embarassment to every MMA fan on the planet....
     
  8. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    I'm Calling YOU OUT!

    Okay, I don't ever do this - call out someone and ask them to put their money where there mouth is, but this is important enough, that I think it's worth it.

    On Dec. 10th the UFC is putting on Fight for the Troops - which is going to be a free, televised fight card on Spike TV.

    They are taking donations and ALL of the proceeds are going to be donated to the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund to help support the men/women and families of our US Troops. They are a non-profit enterprise that only exists to help US Troops who have been harmed, or killed, while serving you, me and every other person on this board, or their families in their time of need.

    The UFC has given us many great fights, some of which recently have been on FREE TV from England, or on Fight Night Live - and even if the cards haven't been as good as the PPV cards - this shouldn't matter.

    IF you are a fan of MMA, IF you have watched some of the past free events, If you are a fan of the sport - you don't have a hair on your @ss if you DO NOT to donate to such a worthy cause.

    If I have ever personally helped you with some firearm's info, I am asking you to put a small price on that, and donate some money to this very good cause.

    There are plenty of organizations that also help the troops - and if you have donated out of respect for our great men & women overseas - God Bless You.

    I know that times are tight, that money is in short supply, and I am not asking anyone to give anything that would put them in dire straights - but think of the sacrifices that our troops are going through.

    I am here, calling out the MMA fans, for a cause that is worth your time to look at, worth your donation and will definitely be worth a night of "free" televised fights with a simple donation to "clear the conscience".

    Fight for the Troops

    Thank you for your time -

    JD
     
  9. user4

    user4 New Member

    3,414
    1
    0
    I can't believe I missed this thread when you started it. I've been a fan of UFC since the beginning. I called every single fight, except Randy's. I was certain he'd win it (and he WAS)
     
  10. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

    13,934
    3
    0
    Man I missed that BOOOOOO HOOOOOO OK dillinger you are now on report for not starting this thread sooner before the fight. I personaly thought lesner was going to be a joke and come in loose a few fights get some WWE fans watching MMA and then go back to WWE and fade away. But he has proven to be a real fighter. Not just some roid injected looser that could not transition from NCAA to anything other than WWE.
     
  11. Benning Boy

    Benning Boy New Member

    9,624
    1
    0
    So what is the big fight for 09?
     
  12. chopkick

    chopkick New Member

    650
    0
    0
    Dillinger, I too missed this thread when you started it. Forgive me, I am unworthy. I just now linked onto the sight and made a donation. Dana White is absolutely right when he says that "times are tough but are a lot tougher for the injured soldiers who fight for us".
    As for the outcome of the Couture/Lesnar match, Randy's game plan was working pretty damn good until he got caught. You don't have to have an awesome standup game when you have hands the size of Brock's. You just have to get lucky once or twice.
    Like everyone else apparently thought, Brock should not have been eligible for a title shot. He has not earned his wings and has not proven himself.
    I believe that Mir will defeat Minotauro and will also beat Lesnar again. Mir may not be the outstanding athlete these other fighters are but his jiu-jitsu is awesome. And his ability to take a punch is pretty darn good too. The whole time Lesner had him on the ground pounding on him Frank was looking for the submission. And he got it.
    Dillinger, thank you for supplying the link and reminding us that we should do what we can for our troops. You think Obama will donate?
     
  13. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    Chop - Thanks for donating brother. I have read rumors that Dana and the UFC plan on matching the donations, may or may not happen, but either way - the moeny goes to the good cause.

    I have to agree that Randy had a great game plan - and it was working quite well. Randy got caught - just the same way Chuck got caught by first Rampage and then again by Rashad. Were there holes in both game plans that led to them getting "caught"? Absolutely.

    Brock throws a big right hand, as evidenced by Herring first and then by what happened to Randy. Because of his reach, you need to circle away from his big right and create angles - something that Kenny Florian, and God help for invoking his name because I think the guy is a complete sh!t fighter - Machida *pukes outright* do really well.

    With the heavyweights, you don't get the same concentration on true jits or true foot movement like with the lighter weightclasses. What you do get, are some exciting fights, some great athletes, and some

    I was at Mir/Lesnar one ( at the same time as SHOT & the timing was PERFECT ). Mir got caught early, he wasn't expecting to be taken down that quickly. While he was willing to pull guard against Brock, he wasn't ready to be taken down, put in side control, and when he was trying to hip out ( a perfect jits move from the side control ) he was being hammered in the head by those same big hamhocks that caught both Heath and Randy.

    Mazzagatti stopped the fight and issued a warning, but what wasn't broadcast for the TV world was at the weighs they talked about the 4 ounce gloves and how they needed special ones for Brocks' hand size. 4 ounces is 4 ounces, spread across 2 inches or 9 inches, there is a hell of a difference in the depth of the padding.

    Now, when the fight went back to the ground, Mir was actually put in a worse situation, what few haters realize, and then he pulled off the kneebar.

    Lesnar is still in horrible "shape" for a ground game against a master jiu-jitsu guy like Mir or Big Nog - the question is who?

    I love both of those guys, Mir is one of my favorites of all time, but Big Nog is one of the most durable fighters I have ever seen.

    Cro-Cop wailed on him and wailed on him and beat him up, down and sideways, for the better part of 20 minutes and Nog sunk in one slick assed arm bar close to the end of the round and won the fight.

    Mir/Nog is going to be a fight everyone that loves the ground game is going to love, one everyone wants to see, even me - but there are a lot of us that don't want to see either guy lose.

    I see Nog beating Mir 6 or 7 times out of 10. Mir can be knocked out and Nog can't, atleast not by Mir - unless he has SERIOUSLY trained his stand up more in prep for the fight. Nogs submissions are smooth, more like a boa constrictor. Mir's are like a car crash, like Barnett's, he grabs a hold of something and tries to tear it completely off your body. This is going to be a great fight - I just don't want either guy to lose it.

    As for the winner versus Brock - That is going to be interesting. Nog can take much more punishment than Mir, so he has a great chance against him, but either guy can easily submit Lesnar and unify the belt as long as they get a good ground position to work from.

    As we have seen from Mir/Lesnar one, and nor Lesnar/Randy, when that big bastard gets side control and can start hitting you in the head, he doesn't do a lot of damage, but he can control you and keep you there until they stop the fight.

    Either way, that Dec 27th card is going to determine A LOT as to what 2009 is going to bring.

    Excellent post by the way Chop. I love talking weapons and MMA - two of my favorite things. :D

    Big props for donating to the card too, thank you!

    JD
     
  14. chopkick

    chopkick New Member

    650
    0
    0
    Thank you sir! Those are my two favorite subject as well. Well, actually there is another that sits at the top but this isn't the forum for it. LOL!
     
  15. user4

    user4 New Member

    3,414
    1
    0
    And how about that upcoming GSP/Penn fight? The thought of BJ Penn gargling GSP's leather makes me feel all warm inside. Penn obviously forgot why he ran screaming from the welter division.
     
  16. user4

    user4 New Member

    3,414
    1
    0
    GSP and Anderson Silva find a weight class that works for them both. It'll be the fight of this half of the century
     
  17. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    100% Agreed! You & I will get along just fine I think... LOL ;)
     
  18. chopkick

    chopkick New Member

    650
    0
    0
    Amen, brother!
     
  19. chopkick

    chopkick New Member

    650
    0
    0
    Absolutely! I cannot wait for that beatdown! If GSP comes out like he did against that A**HOLE Serra, he should have no problem.
     
  20. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    1
    0
    Let's see - in other MMA news. Last night Strike Force, which is one of the last two "big" challengers to the UFC held a bit of a lackluster fight card.

    Kim Sugar Free Couture - Randy's wife, rebounded from her 0-1 showing against some gal who, literally, broke Kim's lower jaw in HALF in her first fight. I forget who Kim's opponent was, as will most of the universe in about 2 days because the gal really had no interest in getting hit, which is kind of a pre-requisite to MMA I am afraid.

    Babalu, formerly of the UFC but got kicked out for holding a choke on David Heath well past the tap, "won" his first title last night. Hard to believe, since the guy has fought EVERYBODY out there. He cut champ Bobby Southworth with a nasty elbow in the first to cause a medical stoppage. Not a great way to win your first belt, but congrats to Babalu. He's a good fighter, he just doesn't have the best head on his shoulders and isn't the best rep for the sport ( see also the Diaz Brothers, Charles Crazy Horse, & BJ Penn ).

    In the co-main event Terry Martin, who was last seen cleaning Chris Leben's clock for most of the fight before catching a bomb to the chin in the last 30 seconds to get knocked damn near dead. Got his release from the UFC and ended up in a co main event against Scott Smith, who recently got the hell beat out of him on EliteXC's next to last card on CBS by Robbie Lawler. How the hell did these two guys get co-main event status - household names. Smith, who's nickname is Hands of Steel, proved if he can actually hit someone ( see the second Lawler fight ) he has the power to put just about anyone on the deck and dumped Martin face down in about 20 or 30 seconds of the first round. Kind of a let down actually. I was hoping for a couple of good rounds of slugfest.

    But, what are you going to do??

    Big love to HDNet for carrying the card for free, if you don't have HDNet and you are fan of MMA, you need to get it. They have the best MMA coverage from all over the globe and all of it's part of their normal programming.