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I've been a life member of the NRA for over a decade. I've defended them many times. But good grief does the NRA run by LaPierre just have atrocious optics these days... it's almost like he's single handedly trying to destroy it.

Bankruptcy, fraud allegations, irresponsible spending sprees, overpaid execs....

And now, this moron goes over and bags a endangered elephant. Is this guy a total moron or what?!?! Look, if you're the head of a organization plagued with negative media, don't go do something this stupid. I find this so distasteful, offensive, and irresponsible on so many levels.

Good grief, I'm about to write a letter to the NRA demanding his resignation.
 

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I've been a life member of the NRA for over a decade. I've defended them many times. But good grief does the NRA run by LaPierre just have atrocious optics these days... it's almost like he's single handedly trying to destroy it.

Bankruptcy, fraud allegations, irresponsible spending sprees, overpaid execs....

And now, this moron goes over and bags a endangered elephant. Is this guy a total moron or what?!?! Look, if you're the head of a organization plagued with negative media, don't go do something this stupid. I find this so distasteful, offensive, and irresponsible on so many levels.

Good grief, I'm about to write a letter to the NRA demanding his resignation.
The legal hunt occurred in 2013, eight years ago and was done through a licensed outfitter.


Wildlife conservationists are outraged after video released by the New Yorker and The Trace on Tuesday shows the head of the National Rifle Association and his wife fatally shooting two now-endangered elephants in Botswana in 2013.

LaPierre has a lot to answer for, but going on a legal, licensed is not an issue I am concerned about.
 

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Botswanna resumed auctioning elephant permits in 2020.


Botswana held its first auctions for the right to hunt elephants since lifting a ban last year.
The country has some 130,000 elephants, the largest population in the world.
The government sold seven hunting licences on Friday, with each allowing hunters to kill 10 elephants in "controlled hunting areas".
Officials revoked a 2014 ban in May, saying human-elephant conflict and the negative impact on livelihoods was increasing.

The lifting of the ban has been popular with many in rural communities, but has been heavily criticised by conservationists.
How did the auctions work?
Seven packages of 10 elephants each were sold at the auction in the capital Gaborone on Friday afternoon, the BBC's Southern Africa correspondent Nomsa Maseko reports.

Only companies registered in Botswana were allowed to bid for the licences. Bidders put down a refundable deposit of 200,000 pula ($18,000; £14,000).
The government has issued a quota for the killing of 272 elephants in 2020.
The hunting would help areas most impacted by "human wildlife conflict", wildlife spokeswoman Alice Mmolawa told AFP news agency.
Why was the ban reversed?
Many rural communities believe a return to commercial hunting will help keep the elephant population away from their villages, and also bring in much-needed income in places not suitable for high-end tourism.
 

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The NRA is a Country Club for the leadership that you pay for. They have been using panic to fleece their victims for decades.

I wonder how much of the elephant old Wayne boy ate?
 

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Strange, that with such pressure upon the overall elephant population that a given country would unleash hunting. I'd think it smarter (perhaps as financially beneficial) to sell a certain number of animals for repopulating areas with dwindling herds.
 

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Strange, that with such pressure upon the overall elephant population that a given country would unleash hunting. I'd think it smarter (perhaps as financially beneficial) to sell a certain number of animals for repopulating areas with dwindling herds.
I will leave the management of the elephant population up to the folks that have to share real estate with them.

Alligators were once an endangered species, now most states with alligators have a hunting season.

Legal, licensed hunts are not a threat to a given wildlife population's longevity.

Poaching is a threat. Locals killing elephants for damaging their crops, competing with their livestock, etc. is another threat.
 

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An estimated 500 people are killed by elephants every year in Africa. This is a lot like Cecil the beloved lion that was shot by some bloodthirsty hunter. In the end the people that live around dangerous animals want them eradicated while environmentalists give them cute names and tracking collars.
 

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Legal, licensed hunts are not a threat to a given wildlife population's longevity.
Well, with an endangered species, that's just it. The definition of "the population." Botswana's just one small spot on that continent. With the continent's population down from 10M to ~300K in the past century, it's hard to see how opening up hunting helps that population. Botswana might see some lessening of impact upon humans, sure, but the population goes down by that number.

From the elephants' perspective, whether the population decreases due to poaching or some other "legal" form of hunting, or whatever, it's still a population reduction.

Plenty of ways to help a regional herd while still helping the population's decline.
 

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Well, with an endangered species, that's just it. The definition of "the population." Botswana's just one small spot on that continent. With the continent's population down from 10M to ~300K in the past century, it's hard to see how opening up hunting helps that population. Botswana might see some lessening of impact upon humans, sure, but the population goes down by that number.

From the elephants' perspective, whether the population decreases due to poaching or some other "legal" form of hunting, or whatever, it's still a population reduction.

Plenty of ways to help a regional herd while still helping the population's decline.
To some in Africa, elephants may be as loved as wolves in the American west.

Yes, WI is in the midwest.

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Hunting of the animals provides money to fund anti-poaching programs. Hunters usually cull out animals that are old or dangerous which is beneficial to the herd. Poachers kill whatever they find and some kill for no reason.
 

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To some in Africa, elephants may be as loved as wolves in the American west.
Sure.

But, generally speaking, only where the habitat's under pressure and elephants move into areas humans do such serious problems tend to exist.

The overarching problem is, as always, localized/regional habitat destruction and encroachments by humans. But there are plenty of places elsewhere on the continent where such localized pressures aren't nearly so severe.

Could easily arrange movement of portions of more heavily-populated elephant herds to elsewhere. But instead Botswana's choosing culling. In a heavily endangered species.

10M to 300K in 100yrs, or 0.03 left of the ~1900 population. Bad news for them, soon enough.
 

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I will leave the management of the elephant population up to the folks that have to share real estate with them.

Alligators were once an endangered species, now most states with alligators have a hunting season.

Legal, licensed hunts are not a threat to a given wildlife population's longevity.

Poaching is a threat. Locals killing elephants for damaging their crops, competing with their livestock, etc. is another threat.
The real question is do these small, poor, and poorly managed countries do the hunts as a conservation method, or do they do it to make a quick buck.

Elephants are an endangered species. It should be unlawful for an American to go on an elephant hunt, for the same reasons that it is unlawful to travel to a country to have sex with a minor. The money spent on the hunt would have relocated the animal that he killed.....Had he spent money to relocate the animal, then he could have been viewed as a hero, shedding a good light on hunters and gun owners, instead of an jackass.

But the point of the OP was the optics. The optics suck, no question. It defines the opulent lifestyle that Wayne lives on your donations. He apparently feels entitled to use your money any way he sees fit. It is a slap in the face of members.
 

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Strange, that with such pressure upon the overall elephant population that a given country would unleash hunting. I'd think it smarter (perhaps as financially beneficial) to sell a certain number of animals for repopulating areas with dwindling herds.
That's too logical in a world that rejects logic and critical thinking at the same time = no thinking.
 

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Yep, great white hunter La Pierre hot the elephant three times, the guide administered the kill shot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
You don't conserve something by killing them. Our model in the United States to protect endangered animals is to make it illegal to kill them. Humans have killed the elephants right to the edge of extinction, in just a century taken their population from 300,000,000 to 30,000. Let that sink in. In 1 generation your kids will not have any elephants at this pace.

The US should make it illegal to go hunt endangered animals of any sort anywhere in the world and it should carry stiff penalties. And the US could fund anti-poaching efforts to aid those areas impacted and it would be budget dust or cut from some other bloated programs for an actual worthy cause.

Whether done yesterday or 10 years ago, there's no ethical or moral justification to go shoot an endangered beautiful elephant, rhino, big cat, great ape, you name it. You're human trash if you do and no decent human enjoys killing for pleasure. Inflicting pain and death on another creature for pleasure is sick and evil, especially when that population is fighting or survival from extinction, and especially when that population is an intelligent life form like an elephant which forms communities and families and demonstrably shows pain and suffering for lost members of their herds. This is well documented. They grieve for lost members.

I cannot comprehend the evil twisted mind of seeing a majestic intelligent beautiful animal like this, and then getting joy and pleasure by putting a bullet thru its brain and taking its life and causing sorrow for the herd. Knowing you ended the life of a creature from a struggling population. Human trash. This is about as twisted and evil as going to pay to have sex with a child in Thailand. It's nonredeemable evil that badly harms an intelligent creature forever.

For me this is the last straw for that human trash LaPierre and the NRA is going to hear from me. I'd encourage those like minded folks to also contact the NRA and express disgust.
 
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