[MPistone]

Gypsies, tramps, and thieves. You hear it from the people in the towns. They call us gypsies, tramps, and thieves.

NRA Life Member here. I ALREADY paid, put my name, face, and backing behind the NRA, and especially the NRA 2.0.

Continued "butt hurt" over past Le-Pierre infringements is like the annoying tinnitus to my mostly deaf ears.

The NRA will reach 10 million members. It is inevitable. Watch us grow.

Join in if you wish, but please, if you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing and don't trash talk this noble organization. It is unbecoming of the reloading and shooting community to appear divided.

"Noble Organization" Ha!

Let’s review what today’s NRA is doing in comparison to the other Second Amendment organizations.

NRA – last case, Supreme Court. Category – First Amendment. The NRA is suing N.Y. State saying the NRA had “suffered tens of millions of dollars in damages” due to the officials’ “blacklisting” of the group in violation of their First Amendment rights. Amazing how fast the NRA can file a suit when it cuts into their wallet.

NRA - pending case, Supreme Court. Category – Second Amendment. The NRA filed a lawsuit in the case of Rahimi arguing that the defendant’s rights were violated as he was ordered by a Texas court to not have any firearms in his possession as part of a civil restraining order. He was charged with a felony when he violated the court’s order. Keep in Mind that the restraining order was due to Rahimi beating his girlfriend in a parking lot and shooting at a bystander who witness the assault. Rahimi was charged six months later for his part in five other shootings; one where he shot a man who purchased drugs from him, the following day Rahimi shot at another driver over a traffic collision – he then fled the scene, returned and fire more shots. Weeks later Rahimi was upset that a truck driver flashed his lights at him, so he turned around and shot at another car behind the truck. Finally, Rahimi shot a gun into the air at a restaurant when his friend’s credit card was declined.

NCLA (New Civil Liberties Alliance) – Cargill v. Garland. Category Second Amendment. NCLA victory over the ATF Bump stock rule.

NYSRPA (New York State Rifle & Pistol Association and GOA (Gun Owners of America) – Category Second Amendment. NYSRPA v. Bruen. A major Supreme Court win for the Second Amendment and the court’s decision has become the basis for many other Second Amendment challenges.

GOA v. Oregon. Category Second Amendment. Struck down Measure 114 as unconstitutional.

California Rifle & Pistol Association – Case pending. Category Second Amendment. Possession of high-capacity magazines.

FPC (Firearms Policy Coalition) - Case pending. Category Second Amendment - Possession of high-capacity magazines and California’s Handgun Roster, which limits the handguns that may be sold in California.

San Diego County Gun Owners Political Action Committee, the Second Amendment Foundation and the Firearms Policy Foundation. Case Pending. Category Second Amendment. Lawsuit filed against California’s Assault weapon ban. These organizations have won several times in California’s lower courts and the case is likely to be heard by the Supreme Court.

Nation Sports Shooting Foundation – Case pending. Category Second Amendment. Lawsuit filed that challenges the Illinois’ Assault Weapons ban.

I don't care if someone chooses to waste their monies on the NRA, but it saddens me that those donations would be so much better off in the hands of effective second amendment organizations.

 

[Southernguns]

"Noble Organization" Ha!

Let’s review what today’s NRA is doing in comparison to the other Second Amendment organizations.

NRA – last case, Supreme Court. Category – First Amendment. The NRA is suing N.Y. State saying the NRA had “suffered tens of millions of dollars in damages” due to the officials’ “blacklisting” of the group in violation of their First Amendment rights. Amazing how fast the NRA can file a suit when it cuts into their wallet.

NRA - pending case, Supreme Court. Category – Second Amendment. The NRA filed a lawsuit in the case of Rahimi arguing that the defendant’s rights were violated as he was ordered by a Texas court to not have any firearms in his possession as part of a civil restraining order. He was charged with a felony when he violated the court’s order. Keep in Mind that the restraining order was due to Rahimi beating his girlfriend in a parking lot and shooting at a bystander who witness the assault. Rahimi was charged six months later for his part in five other shootings; one where he shot a man who purchased drugs from him, the following day Rahimi shot at another driver over a traffic collision – he then fled the scene, returned and fire more shots. Weeks later Rahimi was upset that a truck driver flashed his lights at him, so he turned around and shot at another car behind the truck. Finally, Rahimi shot a gun into the air at a restaurant when his friend’s credit card was declined.

NCLA (New Civil Liberties Alliance) – Cargill v. Garland. Category Second Amendment. NCLA victory over the ATF Bump stock rule.

NYSRPA (New York State Rifle & Pistol Association and GOA (Gun Owners of America) – Category Second Amendment. NYSRPA v. Bruen. A major Supreme Court win for the Second Amendment and the court’s decision has become the basis for many other Second Amendment challenges.

GOA v. Oregon. Category Second Amendment. Struck down Measure 114 as unconstitutional.

California Rifle & Pistol Association – Case pending. Category Second Amendment. Possession of high-capacity magazines.

FPC (Firearms Policy Coalition) - Case pending. Category Second Amendment - Possession of high-capacity magazines and California’s Handgun Roster, which limits the handguns that may be sold in California.

San Diego County Gun Owners Political Action Committee, the Second Amendment Foundation and the Firearms Policy Foundation. Case Pending. Category Second Amendment. Lawsuit filed against California’s Assault weapon ban. These organizations have won several times in California’s lower courts and the case is likely to be heard by the Supreme Court.

Nation Sports Shooting Foundation – Case pending. Category Second Amendment. Lawsuit filed that challenges the Illinois’ Assault Weapons ban.

I don't care if someone chooses to waste their monies on the NRA, but it saddens me that those donations would be so much better off in the hands of effective second amendment organizations.

Besides Wayne, I wonder how many lawyers got wealthy from the NRA. THAT is not where I would want my money to come from. When I was a member, most of what I got from the NRA was junk mail begging for more money. He!!...Tunnels to Towers has more integrity than the NRA which isn't much.

 

[OldLawyer]

"Noble Organization" Ha!

Let’s review what today’s NRA is doing in comparison to the other Second Amendment organizations.

NRA – last case, Supreme Court. Category – First Amendment. The NRA is suing N.Y. State saying the NRA had “suffered tens of millions of dollars in damages” due to the officials’ “blacklisting” of the group in violation of their First Amendment rights. Amazing how fast the NRA can file a suit when it cuts into their wallet.

NRA - pending case, Supreme Court. Category – Second Amendment. The NRA filed a lawsuit in the case of Rahimi arguing that the defendant’s rights were violated as he was ordered by a Texas court to not have any firearms in his possession as part of a civil restraining order. He was charged with a felony when he violated the court’s order. Keep in Mind that the restraining order was due to Rahimi beating his girlfriend in a parking lot and shooting at a bystander who witness the assault. Rahimi was charged six months later for his part in five other shootings; one where he shot a man who purchased drugs from him, the following day Rahimi shot at another driver over a traffic collision – he then fled the scene, returned and fire more shots. Weeks later Rahimi was upset that a truck driver flashed his lights at him, so he turned around and shot at another car behind the truck. Finally, Rahimi shot a gun into the air at a restaurant when his friend’s credit card was declined.

NCLA (New Civil Liberties Alliance) – Cargill v. Garland. Category Second Amendment. NCLA victory over the ATF Bump stock rule.

NYSRPA (New York State Rifle & Pistol Association and GOA (Gun Owners of America) – Category Second Amendment. NYSRPA v. Bruen. A major Supreme Court win for the Second Amendment and the court’s decision has become the basis for many other Second Amendment challenges.

GOA v. Oregon. Category Second Amendment. Struck down Measure 114 as unconstitutional.

California Rifle & Pistol Association – Case pending. Category Second Amendment. Possession of high-capacity magazines.

FPC (Firearms Policy Coalition) - Case pending. Category Second Amendment - Possession of high-capacity magazines and California’s Handgun Roster, which limits the handguns that may be sold in California.

San Diego County Gun Owners Political Action Committee, the Second Amendment Foundation and the Firearms Policy Foundation. Case Pending. Category Second Amendment. Lawsuit filed against California’s Assault weapon ban. These organizations have won several times in California’s lower courts and the case is likely to be heard by the Supreme Court.

Nation Sports Shooting Foundation – Case pending. Category Second Amendment. Lawsuit filed that challenges the Illinois’ Assault Weapons ban.

I don't care if someone chooses to waste their monies on the NRA, but it saddens me that those donations would be so much better off in the hands of effective second amendment organizations.

You are correct in many respects but not looking at the big picture. You are taking a tunnel vision look, which does not matter much in throng term. We are dealing with a massive well funded anti gun movement. They will change the game in time. You cannot rely on what one Court says about the law right now, it is going to change. May be 5-10 years but it will change and existing case law will be overruled. Even the American Bar Association is confined that Heller and all are bogus rings. Those cases are only valid until the Court changes.


Any law firm can handle the lawsuits, the NRA has trained maybe 6,000 lawyers in the last 20 years. Once per year they host the largest meeting of 2a or pro gun lawyers on the planet . At at the end of the seminar ever lawyer there will walk out with a book and case materials and copies of legal briefs they can cut and paste
and file a new second amendment case the next day. Below is a list of speakers for the seminar in April. Every person who has worked on every major case has presented over and over.
There was no logical reason for the NRA to do them all and small groups like the SAF and GOA were eager to step in and do e a good job. Unfortunately the cases do not go very far I have belonged to those two for more than a decade. Below is some info on their instructors this time.

Keep in mind the lawsuits are the easy part and only apply to basic constitutional issue. Lawsuits have never been more than about 10% of what the NRA does to conserve the 2A.

In my state they just funded in part 14 massive shooting ranges on public land, free to anyone with a hunting or fishing license, and free to anyone over 65.

And they have given big bucks to fund youth hunting and shooting events at my gun club.

This is a map of shooting ranges the NRA has helped build the last 3-4 years while people thought they were doing nothing. It has totally changed, some people just have so much anger they will not look at the truth.

Some are basic others are much bigger. The NRA along with state wildlife funding built 14 of these the last 4 years. It is important because the Oklahoma Wildlife Department does not get any state tax money. They only get funds from hunting and fishing license and federal wildlife tax. Repeat, taxpayers do not pay one dime for anything wildlife. So when the NRA comes in and helps build 14 ranges in 4 years, it is a big deal. Without these ranges, it was illegal to target practice on state land.
You could go hunt there, but could not sight in your rifle. Now they have them all over the state . Did I say they were free.

The NRA lawyer trainers for April.

Halbrook:
He has argued and won three cases before the US Supreme Court: Printz v. United States, United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Company, and Castillo v. United States. He has also written briefs in many other cases, including the Supreme Court cases Small v. United States (pertaining to the Gun Control Act of 1968) and McDonald v. Chicago. In District of Columbia v. Heller, he wrote a brief on behalf of the majority of both houses of Congress. He has written many books and articles on the topic of gun control, some of which have been cited in Supreme Court opinions (Heller, McDonald, Printz v. United States). He has testified before congress on multiple occasions.[5][6][7][8] Halbrook's most popular book is That Every Man Be Armed, originally published in 1984. The book is an analysis of the legal history and original intent of the Second Amendment.[2]

Greenlee. NRA staff attorney
Greenlee has worked on over 100 Second Amendment cases and has filed more than 30 briefs with the U.S. Supreme Court.

Monroe

John Monroe has been practicing law for over 30 years. He concentrates his practice on civil and criminal litigation over gun law issues. He has successfully sued the FBI, the ATF, the States of Wisconsin and Georgia, and many local governmental entities

I was involved when Oklahoma got CCW permits I was one of the first licensed. It was 100% NRA driven. And I went to the marches on the state capital, armed, of course to get constitutional carry. It was 100% NRA driven too. NRA and our state 2A group got is passed in 1999.

The ground game of getting out voters is the risk we have now. When the Supreme Court shifts they will kill Heller and those cases, just like they did Roe v Wade. People need to wake up and get ready because is coming. And lawyers can do nothing, only voters can. That is the difference between the NRA and those who mostly just do lawsuits.

Time to investigate and donate. If the Dems the votes they can change the law. They have billionaires funding them. And they are angry now.


I have zero problem with how anyone donated their money, but trashing the NRA at this date is a fools errand. Does matter if you give or not, but trashing them when you have no clue what js happening now is harmful. Every they they do is helping the 2A.

 

[MPistone]

You are correct in many respects but not looking at the big picture. You are taking a tunnel vision look, which does not matter much in throng term. We are dealing with a massive well funded anti gun movement. They will change the game in time. You cannot rely on what one Court says about the law right now, it is going to change. May be 5-10 years but it will change and existing case law will be overruled. Even the American Bar Association is confined that Heller and all are bogus rings. Those cases are only valid until the Court changes.


Any law firm can handle the lawsuits, the NRA has trained maybe 6,000 lawyers in the last 20 years. Once per year they host the largest meeting of 2a or pro gun lawyers on the planet . At at the end of the seminar ever lawyer there will walk out with a book and case materials and copies of legal briefs they can cut and paste
and file a new second amendment case the next day. Below is a list of speakers for the seminar in April. Every person who has worked on every major case has presented over and over.
There was no logical reason for the NRA to do them all and small groups like the SAF and GOA were eager to step in and do e a good job. Unfortunately the cases do not go very far I have belonged to those two for more than a decade. Below is some info on their instructors this time.

Keep in mind the lawsuits are the easy part and only apply to basic constitutional issue. Lawsuits have never been more than about 10% of what the NRA does to conserve the 2A.

In my state they just funded in part 14 massive shooting ranges on public land, free to anyone with a hunting or fishing license, and free to anyone over 65.

And they have given big bucks to fund youth hunting and shooting events at my gun club.

This is a map of shooting ranges the NRA has helped build the last 3-4 years while people thought they were doing nothing. It has totally changed, some people just have so much anger they will not look at the truth.


View attachment 277171

Some are basic others are much bigger. The NRA along with state wildlife funding built 14 of these the last 4 years. It is important because the Oklahoma Wildlife Department does not get any state tax money. They only get funds from hunting and fishing license and federal wildlife tax. Repeat, taxpayers do not pay one dime for anything wildlife. So when the NRA comes in and helps build 14 ranges in 4 years, it is a big deal. Without these ranges, it was illegal to target practice on state land.
You could go hunt there, but could not sight in your rifle. Now they have them all over the state . Did I say they were free.



View attachment 277172
View attachment 277173

The NRA lawyer trainers for April.

View attachment 277170
Halbrook:
He has argued and won three cases before the US Supreme Court: Printz v. United States, United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Company, and Castillo v. United States. He has also written briefs in many other cases, including the Supreme Court cases Small v. United States (pertaining to the Gun Control Act of 1968) and McDonald v. Chicago. In District of Columbia v. Heller, he wrote a brief on behalf of the majority of both houses of Congress. He has written many books and articles on the topic of gun control, some of which have been cited in Supreme Court opinions (Heller, McDonald, Printz v. United States). He has testified before congress on multiple occasions.[5][6][7][8] Halbrook's most popular book is That Every Man Be Armed, originally published in 1984. The book is an analysis of the legal history and original intent of the Second Amendment.[2]

Greenlee. NRA staff attorney
Greenlee has worked on over 100 Second Amendment cases and has filed more than 30 briefs with the U.S. Supreme Court.

Monroe

John Monroe has been practicing law for over 30 years. He concentrates his practice on civil and criminal litigation over gun law issues. He has successfully sued the FBI, the ATF, the States of Wisconsin and Georgia, and many local governmental entities

I was involved when Oklahoma got CCW permits I was one of the first licensed. It was 100% NRA driven. And I went to the marches on the state capital, armed, of course to get constitutional carry. It was 100% NRA driven too. NRA and our state 2A group got is passed in 1999.

The ground game of getting out voters is the risk we have now. When the Supreme Court shifts they will kill Heller and those cases, just like they did Roe v Wade. People need to wake up and get ready because is coming. And lawyers can do nothing, only voters can. That is the difference between the NRA and those who mostly just do lawsuits.

Time to investigate and donate. If the Dems the votes they can change the law. They have billionaires funding them. And they are angry now.


I have zero problem with how anyone donated their money, but trashing the NRA at this date is a fools errand. Does matter if you give or not, but trashing them when you have no clue what js happening now is harmful. Every they they do is helping the 2A.

The NRA did not make a single one of the attorneys you mention great litigators; the 2A knowledge you credit the NRA as sharing, with these brilliant legal minds, could have been and most likely would have been garnered from any number of other sources.

 

[Southernguns]

The NRA did not make a single one of the attorneys you mention great litigators; the 2A knowledge you credit the NRA as sharing, with these brilliant legal minds, could have been and most likely would have been garnered from any number of other sources.

I certainly hope these comments were not aimed at me. You need to qualify your post. AFAIC, the NRA is a non-entity for 2A supporters.

SG

 

[nadafinga]

You are correct in many respects but not looking at the big picture. You are taking a tunnel vision look, which does not matter much in throng term. We are dealing with a massive well funded anti gun movement. They will change the game in time. You cannot rely on what one Court says about the law right now, it is going to change. May be 5-10 years but it will change and existing case law will be overruled.

well i can't speak for anyone else, but efff 5-10 years, neither i nor alot of people HAVE 5-10 YRS to wait for things to happen, that's total b.s. i don't know about you guys, but i ain't getting younger or stronger. i am not the only person i know who has to wait for 25 days EVERY TIME i buy a firearm, even though i have no police record, no mental health issues, no history of violence or domestic abuse, no drugs, no dui's. my record is cleaner than some cops. i've been cleared to work in high security gov't buildings. i have my red card as well. nra (nor anyone else) is doing anything about that. delaware passed an unconstitutional firearms safety law in 2022, no help from the nra, fpc, goa, etc. i actually myself called them, and was told they were not involved. i was down in dover outside the general assembly when it was debated, no nra spotted by me.

 

[Southernguns]

well i can't speak for anyone else, but efff 5-10 years, neither i nor alot of people HAVE 5-10 YRS to wait for things to happen, that's total b.s. i don't know about you guys, but i ain't getting younger or stronger. i am not the only person i know who has to wait for 25 days EVERY TIME i buy a firearm, even though i have no police record, no mental health issues, no history of violence or domestic abuse, no drugs, no dui's. my record is cleaner than some cops. i've been cleared to work in high security gov't buildings. i have my red card as well. nra (nor anyone else) is doing anything about that. delaware passed an unconstitutional firearms safety law in 2022, no help from the nra, fpc, goa, etc. i actually myself called them, and was told they were not involved. i was down in dover outside the general assembly when it was debated, no nra spotted by me.

nadafinga, In other words, we're on our own.

 

[G66enigma]

The NRA for so long has been a staple for freedoms. Unfortunately a bad executive or two got greedy ...

and the Board allowed it all to occur without effective oversight.

Hopefully they have (or soon will) eviscerate all the rot and institute procedures, verifications and oversight that are about as unlikely of getting circumvented as ten feet of snow falling in the Florida summertime.

When people who felt driven away see that in action, see evidence of great effort along those lines, then hopefully a good percentage of former members will come back and a good percentage of current members will see fit to ramp up support of the group.

Big challenge.

 

[MPistone]

Deleted - duplicate

 

[MPistone]

I certainly hope these comments were not aimed at me. You need to qualify your post. AFAIC, the NRA is a non-entity for 2A supporters.

SG

Please note that my comment was a direct reply to Oldlawyers post #23.

 

[Southernguns]

Please note that my comment was a direct reply to Oldlawyers post #23.

Thank you, MPistone. It really isn't important to me right now. I see post #23 has apparently been deleted. It really doesn't matter at all because I got zero hours of sleep last night and didn't even try, and not much the night before and the night before that. I may not be all here....

My Valentine's Celebration of Life was this morning and it was beautiful, just like she was. Again, thank you everyone here for your support. I will be fine, that is for sure. The entire families on both sides are here as well as my gun family and a whole bunch of friends. God and guns are good.... Anti-gun people are bad....

 

[Oldoutlaw]

Thank you, MPistone. It really isn't important to me right now. I see post #23 has apparently been deleted. It really doesn't matter at all because I got zero hours of sleep last night and didn't even try, and not much the night before and the night before that. I may not be all here....

My Valentine's Celebration of Life was this morning and it was beautiful, just like she was. Again, thank you everyone here for your support. I will be fine, that is for sure. The entire families on both sides are here as well as my gun family and a whole bunch of friends. God and guns are good.... Anti-gun people are bad....

My Condolences SG. Stay strong !

 

[OldLawyer]

You missed the point about lawyers, those are just the speakers this year.

Nobody makes you a great litigator, you do that on your own. Many years ago I was selected to speak to the American Bar Association in Kansas City and I went there and served with 3 others on a panel discussion. Speaking to hundreds of judges and prosecutors. I think I was chosen because I had been a subject matter expert on a couple of hearings before Congress before. They had seen me speak for a couple years and It was before Congress on C Span .So I guess that is why I was selected by the ABA. As a lawyer, I did not even belong on that group, but was honored.

But it got better. A prominent university professor from DC led the panel, a senior judge of 27 years was on the panel, and a senior US Government Official and me. My alleged expertise was that of a veteran trial lawyer. I do admit, I had a few kudos, I had been a special prosecutor against crooked lawyers a few times, and I had successfully argued a first ever DNA case in my state, and broken several prosecution records in my state.

But the coolest part was when they introduced us as the most brilliant lawyers in the country on the issues being discussed. My mother passed the year before, she would have been so thrilled.

Was I one of the most brilliant....well maybe for my 15 minutes of fame maybe so. The fact is, there were probably thousands of litigators around the nation, who were more brilliant than me. That's a funny word.

Here is my point. In litigation, the first lawyer to break new ground gets the credit. Everybody else just adapts his theory, plagiarizes his legal briefs, and tweaks his argument to fit his case fact pattern. If you look at the entire body of law, there are only a few cases that matter. And there are only a few early attorneys that really mattered, the rest of us just joined the crowd.

In second amendment cases, the critical cases in the nation were not won by the NRA, GOA or. SAF or anyone you would know. Heller and McDonald are the only key cases and they were both credited as being won by a young lawyer named Alan Gura. Alan Gura - Wikipedia

In both matters, the NRA had filed the first lawsuit both in DC and Chicago. Gura came along with another lawsuit in each town. He had a different theory than the NRA and what should be the reason for the Second Amendment to prevail. Its fairly complicated so I won't address it here but both wanted different 14th Amendment concepts to apply.

Gura is a Libertarian, and if his theory worked it would help his other causes. So they butted head initially, but joined forces latter.

Those are the only two cases that really matter. Gura would be the brilliant one. Everyone since then, thousands of lawyers have now been trained. Most by the NRA because training is what they do.

As far as their status now, I am not aware of any of the bad blood that remains. If you are aware of one single person that was involved in that debacle 6-7 years ago, please advise the name. They needed to dump LaPiere who is long gone and I heard in poor health.

And they needed to get rid of Olie North who I guess tried to blackmail them for million bucks.

Also, the lawyer is long gone. think his name was Cook.

There was Mariam Hammer, former female president and high paid lobbyist. They dumped her last year. Marion Hammer - Wikipedia

All the players who made big bucks are long gone. And we know the New York DA tried every was possible to charge some with crimes. They were all exonerated, not one criminal case filed. What they had was very bad management that allowed Wayne to spend massive amounts of money, wrong but not a crime.

So, if you have any evidence whatsoever that there is even one bad guy remaining please supply the name. The place has been cleaned out, sanitized and they are back doing the Lords work.

And if you have any information of wasteful spending please advise. My gun club has an NRA contact, so if you know of anything that is not 100% perfect in their new operation please advise and I will see what I can find out.

As I stated above, anybody can do the lawsuits now and there will be lots of local. ones for a while, but the big issue is votes.

Remember that in Heller. the court said permits and training requirements are just fine. The Dems have promised to make massive training requirement and only voters can stop that, lawsuits cannot. So, we need the NRA and their 24 million votes and lobbyists more than ever.

 

[OldLawyer]

and the Board allowed it all to occur without effective oversight.

Hopefully they have (or soon will) eviscerate all the rot and institute procedures, verifications and oversight that are about as unlikely of getting circumvented as ten feet of snow falling in the Florida summertime.

When people who felt driven away see that in action, see evidence of great effort along those lines, then hopefully a good percentage of former members will come back and a good percentage of current members will see fit to ramp up support of the group.

Big challenge.

It has been done. All of the bad guys are gone. They are doing everything they did years ago,
but better.

The lawsuits as stated are only about 10 % of what they do. And lots of new small groups can fund a lawyer, and the expense is pretty small.


And it is cheaper for the smaller gun groups go hire attorneys in their own state, than have the NRA to fly them all over.


The problems and problem people are long gone. What are you doing to find out if your bias against them are still valid. Or, Are you still believing what you read about the NRA 6 years ago?

 

[G66enigma]

The problems and problem people are long gone. What are you doing to find out if your bias against them are still valid. Or, Are you still believing what you read about the NRA 6 years ago?

It's within the past year that the rooting-out has been accomplished. But we've yet to firmly see the results. It's happening, yes. Supposedly, "all" changes have occurred and they're for the better, but it's hardly a so-called bias from six years ago. So, yes, with roughly a year (and change) since implementation of many changes I'm circumspect. Hopeful that "all" has been changed for the better. I hope the changes have indeed resulted in just that.

 

[Notrighty]

Also don’t forget who rooted out LaPierre and Phillips. It wasn’t the NRA, it was NY Attorney General Letitia James. A jury decided that they should be kicked out of the organization, and if not , they might still be there.

 

[Southernguns]

My Condolences SG. Stay strong !

Great advice my friend. There really is no alternative I can relate to.

 

[G66enigma]

Also don’t forget who rooted out LaPierre and Phillips. It wasn’t the NRA, it was NY Attorney General Letitia James. A jury decided that they should be kicked out of the organization, and if not , they might still be there.

Which likely means the Board was "onboard" with such people being in-place in their cushy little assignments.

Circumspection and appropriate caution is a good thing, when faced with an organization that allowed it all to run rampant. Went far beyond merely "one or two" people. And likely won't be wholly rooted-out yet until the culture changes throughout.

 

[OldLawyer]

277205[/ATTACH]

Year of ruling xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Heller 2008 xx McDonald 2010 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Bruen 2022 xxxx

This chart is a critical document from an efficiency standpoint. What it shows is that once Heller and Mc Donald were established law, the NRA put massive amounts of money into lobbying, guys meeting with legislators at the Federal level and at every state. They had what we call, Black Letter Law, they had the Supreme Court mandating that everyone in every state had a personal amendment to own guns, anywhere they lived, and secondly, we had a right to use them for defense. During that window the NRA got more permitless carry than any other time. No state got it without the NRA leading the charge.

In fact I was at NRA events to get carry rights. I was at the back, I carried hand guns.

The NRA has been the leader in permitles carry. Here is the years it passed.

Fourteen states have passed permitless carry since fraud by Wayne was exposed. The NRA has been pushing it in most states for years. The time was ripe and it was pushed on thru, despite the controversy.

The NRA wrote a dream list and Trump has promised to grant it. No other gun group has that power. The NRA controls millions of votes, and likely what got him elected in the swing states. This is just the last two years.

Here some he promised the NRA he would do, and has started.

Trump pledged to enact national concealed carry reciprocity, a longtime gun rights priority, which would allow people with gun permits to take their weapons across state lines and require every other state to accept their gun permit regardless of differences in permitting standards.

Trump is planning to further dilute the Justice Department’s power by making federal funding for state and local law enforcement contingent upon arrest and prosecution rates for violent crime. So if a city or state doesn’t hit its targets, it loses out on funding. His operating theory is that crime isn’t actually dropping, as has been widely reported and verified. Instead, he claims that arrest rates are what’s dropping, due to the “collapse” of law enforcement.

He will also appoint someone to head the FBI who is “willing to clean out many of those on the 7th floor” — meaning the most senior agents.

Another Trump priority is to expand the National Crime Victimization Survey, his team told the NRA’s magazine, the federal government’s twice-yearly poll yielding valuable data about violent crime, which is often used by Republicans to paint a picture of rising violence.

These 4 were all big NRA goal for years and they all help the 2A.

And on Feb 7 the NRA guy over legislative affairs, those lobbyists said this.


"President Trump has gone further than simply moving towards eliminating the anti-gun actions of the last administration. The order further requires the Attorney General to take an all-of-government review to further enhance firearm rights by addressing the litigation position of the United States in any case impacting the Second Amendment, reviewing government classifications of firearms and ammunition, and evaluating wait times for various federal approvals that are required to make, manufacture, transfer, or export firearms and ammunition.""

nobody but the current NRA has got his done.

So, what is it that you expect go happen before. you are fully aware of what they are doing and now money js being spent?

If you sill read the entire case in the link above, you will see that nothing really bad was happening except two guys, Wayne and Woody, the CFO stole $7.2 million based on the 6 week jury trial, simple as that.

I am not affiliated the NRA in anyway, except I am lifetime member and certified as an instructor by them. I also am an avid hunter and aware of their big an to build thousands of ranges. I am seeing that with my own eyes the last 3-4 years. And i follow the local 2A group in my state who is 100% in lock step with the NRA in New issues.

Everybody involved in the Second Amendment where I am, knows the NRA fixed those problems years ago, and doing a wonderful job.

I am just surprised that people on a gun forum have so little current information and are still bashing them for stuff that happened 6-10 years ago. Will they ever investigate or just keep repeating the same old story as to why they will not contribute. It is not about the fees or whether a donation is better at another group, it is just that those guys are just like Letticia James or any other anti gun Dem just trashing them without knowing who is running the outfit and what the facts really are.at the new NRA.


This is the people still trashing the NRA except she lost in court. only 2 guys found to have damaged the NRA, Wayne and Woody. So, again rhetorical question, what evidence do you have that somebody at the NRA today js doing wrong?

My bias is being an old prosecutor on a matter me this, years later. So mam are you pregnant or not . You either have evidence of you are just Making up an opinion. And that is what I feel about people still trashing the NRA after the
jury trial where all the facts came out.

Read that entire file and then express an opinion about the NRA today.

This is the face of a lady who still trash talks the NRA.

All that old stuff is over. Time to get the facts a quit trashing things people know nothing about. It hurts the 2A movement and influences people new guns.

 

[G66enigma]

So, what is it that you expect go happen before. you are fully aware of what they are doing and now money js being spent?

So, again rhetorical question, what evidence do you have that somebody at the NRA today js doing wrong?

Didn't say there's current evidence in my hand that today someone is doing wrong at the NRA. Don't think I even implied that, though clearly you took my earlier remarks about skepticism that way.

What I did say is that all of this occurred within the past year, cleaning out the old embezzlers, changing the board, installing a new CEO and a new President, a couple directors, and probably some other changes I've yet to hear of.

The efforts to change in the past ~1yr period @ NRA:

• 31 January 2024 -- Wayne LaPierre resignation
• 23 February 2024 -- Wayne LaPierre judgment (against), owes $4.3M damages + 9% interest
• 23 February 2024 -- Woody Phillips judgment (against), owes $2M damages + 9% interest
• 2024 elections @ NRA -- new board, members to serve for 3yr terms (to 2027)
• 20 May 2024 -- new President of NRA, Bob Barr
• 20 May 2024 -- new Exec VP & CEO of NRA, Doug Hamlin
• 29 July 2024 -- Wayne LaPierre banned 10yrs from involvement with NRA/fiduciary
• 29 July 2024 -- Woody Phillips banned 10yrs from involvement in NY non-profits
• 10 December 2024 -- new Exec Director NRA-ILA (interim), John Commerford
• 10 December 2024 -- new Exec Director NRA Gen'l Opns, Josh Savani
• 11 December 2024 -- judge orders changes at the NRA (governance, oversight)

Great and good changes. Many of whom have long-standing knowledge of the NRA and history having worked in various NRA posts. If those people are iron-clad upstanding, were chosen well, and are implementing culture and organizational change throughout. That last aspect isn't something I've clearly heard about, though I'm hopeful it's substantively happening.

I wasn't speaking of Trump efforts, efforts which have only been occurring over the past month (almost a month).

As for changes in the states, those are all good things. I'm not so naive to imagine it's strictly only the NRA and its lobbying and efforts that gets such stuff done, that helps legislatures to appreciate what the right thing to do is. But, yes, the NRA has indeed had worked for decades to help state legislators, fed legislators and others to "see the light," and to also be involved in court cases attempting to shoot down attacks on the RKBA (along with SAF, GOA and a few others). Wasn't speaking of the long history of the NRA's impacts. Was strictly speaking of this past year's events and the clean-up in Aisle 3.

All I said was, circumspection and skepticism is good, when such breach of trust has occurred.

Changes of personnel are good, but the Board failed in its oversight and allowed these things to occur without sufficient guard rails, checks and balances. The changes we're speaking of all occurred within the PAST YEAR. The changes haven't yet clearly shown evidence (publicly) that the checks and balances hopefully put into place are now effective and religiously followed. I suppose that's my bar, what I'm hoping to have the NRA show soon. Not even a year has gone by, yet, for the new VP/CEO, new Pres, new Exec Directors and new Board to make a serious and clear "dent" in the culture. I hope it has occurred. Haven't yet heard a wide-ranging public lauding of the new people's efforts and the new processes/procedures, though I'm assuming that'll begin once people clearly see the impacts.

I get the NRA's potential impact. It's the 800 pound gorilla in the room. They've been that (and had good effect) for a long time. And the legislators from coast to coast know it. They've long since had muscle, an "in" with such people (through the lobbying efforts), and have shown a long history of being capable of getting much done at the legislative level. This mess has tarnished the brand badly. Hopefully it's continuing on without hardly missing a beat. Though, as I've hinted at, I haven't roundly heard lauds from all quarters yet, aside from a couple of people "in the know" who've got reason to have "inside" information about how things are going. All to the good. And as the lauds come from more and more people, from our legislators as well, then it'll all help to confirm (along with reports of the clean-up internally) that things are well and truly changed for the good.

Hopeful. But given that mere months have gone by since many of the changes were implemented, I remain circumspect. Rightly so.