The Myth of Over-penetration

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by ScottA, Aug 24, 2014.

  1. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    Things that make you go "hmmm"

    [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U-O0sXd9hg&list=UUgD93xd1KaokQWJ96woH-AA[/ame]
     
  2. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I ever heard it expressed quite as he did. It sounds like I already arrived at the same conclusion with regard to where I prioritize considering over penetration. Especially with regard to the statistical likelihood of a round passing through a gobblin and hitting a bystander.

    A possible risk. Maybe it should be considered, but agree it shouldn't be the primary concern.
     

  3. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

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    Sorry, could not get past the cross dressing underwear scene. This bozo is sick.
     
  4. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    surely it didn't hit a little close to home, did it?:D

    lack of penetration is more of a concern than over-penetration.
     
  5. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

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    Being that this is a sick bozo, you should not trust anything he says.

    So back to the point, the cartridge should be able to do the job, and should not be overpowered for the job.

    Ergo it would make little sense to carry 44 rem mag revolvers for self defense against people in the city.

    Similarly the 357 mag is also overpowered.

    However the 40's, 10mm's, 45ACP, 9mm and 38 specials are all very similar and just fine for self defense for everything except bears.

    But with bears you are back to the 44 mag class again.
     
  6. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

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    In your case it is probably close to home ...

    In my case it simply reminds me of you yes.

    You post way too much and you say way too little in terms of pure firearms thought.
     
  7. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    single guys tend to be crossdressers more than married ones!:p
     
  8. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Always know your target, and what lies beyond your target.

    To me, over-penetration means that the perp has two holes to bleed out of. Faster blood loss, faster go to sleepy time. Since I don't carry a "9", I don't too much worry about over-penetration. God forbid that I ever have to, but I would attempt to hit the bad guy with a bone crushing, knee-buckling, under-penetrating dose of 230 grains of slow moving lead, hoping to knock him off his feet quicker than Justin Bieber does to an 8th grade girls gym class.
     
  9. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

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    Any of the acceptable cartridges is going to crush bone if it hits bone squarely.

    The probability of a bone hit is less than 50% however, in the case of a hit at all. Mammalian endoskeletons simply do not cover that much of the body -- the skull and part of the rib cage plus a central axis of the limbs is all.

    Bullets tend to graze off bones and keep going. Bones are not square, they are curved.

    The lite 44 specials are probably the best cartridge in terms of not being over-penetrating. That's why the air marshals use them specifically.

    However now you are dealing with a revolver, whereas pistols make better self defense guns.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
  10. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    I agree with CF, 2 holes are better than one! The biggest matter is you hit them and punched holes!
     
  11. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    So a guy who posts videos on you tube and puts on a dress once for entertainment value has no credibility because he basically did a skit that involved a dress. Says the man from California, who probably has to live his life within the confines of descisions, policies, and laws made by folks who do this on the regular, along with more bizaar stuff.

    Get past the intro-montage and listen to the actual argument then post your argument based on the actual discussion. You may find there is common ground. (And no, I'm not accusing you of cross dressing, just missing the point).
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
  12. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    yeah bones may be curved, but bullets still tend to take hunks of bone even when not squarely hit. and bone does tend to make up a large portion of the body and is pretty even distributed throughout the body.

    looking at the skeleton of the human body, and most people are taught to shoot center mass, what is pretty much covering center mass? ribs and bones. so if a person shoots center mass, it's highly likely they have a pretty good chance of hitting bone.

    please explain how semi-autos are better than revolvers. i'm sure some would like to hear your reasons.
     
  13. manta

    manta Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think missing the intended target would be more of an issue than over penetration.
     
  14. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    that would be my impression as well.
     
  15. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    I don't want the thread to go way down a side road. But I think there are probably more arguments for a modern auto than a revolver, in most situations, nowadays.

    Do I think revolvers have no place? Nope. I carried an Airweight for a long time.

    Deciding factors for me were:

    Thinner profile for carry.
    Higher capacity.
    Faster reload.
    Better shootability under stress.
    Easier for most folks I know, to control recoil for faster follow up shots.
    Follow up shots seem more important to me in my decision because I don't trust any highly portable and controllable round to perform a one stop shot.
    Capacity and reload speed became more important in my decision because of more crimes being done with "roving band" tactics.

    Most important for me,is that I just shoot and can drive an auto from target to target better than I can a revolver. I've found that more of the new shooters I meet, can usually do better with autos as well.
     
  16. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. The gent in the video seemed to emphasize the same. If you are concerned about hitting bystanders, then hitting your target squarely becomes the first priority. Over penetration is hardly a concern if your bullet never gets a chance to penetrate the bad guy, before encountering an innocent.
     
  17. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    but he said for SD. so that could come from being used within the home, vs. being carried.

    IMO, is a semi-auto better than a revolver? yes and no. it depends on too many variable to give a one size fits all answer.

    i feel in no way at a disadvantage if i have one of my revolvers in my hand, vs. one of my semi-auto pistols. but i also tend to preach shot placement trumps caliber and capacity in most cases as well.
     
  18. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Hope Shoobee is OK. Don't know what part of CA he is in, but I'm seeing Napa got shook up pretty hard.
     
  19. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, I've carried a revolver.

    Some of my decisions were exactly that, my decisions. I can understand why some folks choose a revolver. I know there are people who can definitely run a revolver better than I do. So, a lot of it is my comfort level. If someone runs a revolver better and is comfortable with it, then I respect that and it probably what they should stick with.

    In a worst case scenario with multiple attackers I'll take shot placement supplemented with capacity.

    I do love a good Double action revolver though. And I like .357 and .44 for the versatity they offer.
     
  20. Overkill0084

    Overkill0084 Active Member

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    I still carry a snubbie now & again. Mostly when I'm out on the Motorcycle and jacket pocket carry is the order of the day. Roving bands aren't a problem yet here in UT. Well humans anyway. Wildlife on the other hand...