The FTF Glock Project Thread - Haters & FanBoys Can Suck It!

Discussion in 'DIY Projects' started by Dillinger, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Sweet Seven Pound Baby Jesus! :mad:

    I don't know what it is, maybe the waning summer months, maybe the respective sports teams aren't doing well, maybe everyone just wants to argue - but this crap is getting old!

    What are there, like 5 or 6 Glock battle threads that are at the top of the list every time you log in?

    Enough already!

    You guys arguing is doing nothing to further either side, but you are bringing a tremendous amount of negativity to my beloved forum every day. :mad:

    So, how about we try to be part of a solution instead?

    Obviously there is no consensus, so I propose you guys set forth in an effort to contribute to making the FTF Glock, the Excalibur of All Glocks.

    A few notes about this thread:

    · Anyone posting photoshopped images or stupid BS homeboy sights ( and I am talking to you Tango & Shihan and the rest of you clowns ) is going to get you booted out of this thread, I kid you not.
    · Anyone posting that the new Glock just needs to look like a 1911 or an XD, this goes for you as well, instant boot from the thread and you lose your contributing privledges.
    · This goes for you Glock fans who are going to post that "X" military or police uses it "as-is" and that it's perfect. Obviously it's not perfect, or there wouldn't be a need to have all these damn discussions.
    · Oh, and before we get into the “uneducated masses” speech again, most of the members here have A TON of firearms, reloading and shooting experience under their belts. We have Glock armorers, we have gunsmiths, former operators, Active & Retired LEO/Military, competition shooters, not to mention engineers and metalsmiths. This group ISN’T lacking education in any sense of the word and to imply so because they don’t agree with you is just plain arrogant.


    Of course, we have to take a stance that is neither fan nor hater to start the project, so as such, I propose that we stick to what is commonly referred to as “a problem” with the platform.

    · If you can’t agree that there are reasons the weapon hasn’t been openly adopted by everyone and feel that there are no problems with the platform, than this probably isn’t the thread for you.
    · We have to accept that some criticism is warranted, while some is just flat out hater driven dribble. We need to be able to discuss this and we have to be able to show facts that are in common knowledge.
    · No one here wants to hear about a guy you used to shoot with, who’s brother has a Glock that ran 20,000 rounds and never had to be cleaned. Do you have a picture? No? Then leave that part out. If you have the weapon, great, but no outrageous claims that can’t be substaniated.
    · In addition, no one wants to hear about the time a friend of yours was at the range and a guy three booths down put his first reload into a brand new Glock and the thing blew up killing 2 and injuring seven other shooters and the range dog. You have pictures and a news story link, great, let’s see it. Otherwise, keep the BS out.


    OUR GOAL:

    This is a new breed of Glock: We are going to take a look at the "negatives", or “perceived negatives” and we are going to discuss them, pros & cons, just like a real R&D Team, but one working on producing the weapon that will answer the haters and still keep the fans happy.

    In our attempt to build our FTF Edition, I would ask that we keep this in the REAL world, with real products. While I am not going to rush out and fund the first FTF Edition Glock, this thread might be used for someone doing research on building up their own. As such, please post links to products that are real and being sold to civilians. Cool?

    We can’t go creating some $2000-$2500 custom Glock. Anyone spending that kind of money is probably going to be looking at custom guns and not getting a factory gun and changing a part or two.

    First up we must discuss the ergonomics. Much of what is initially said in these threads is that the weapon doesn’t “feel right” or “fit” the poster’s hand. Having shot several over the years, and having larger hands, I can say that I don’t have a problem dropping the magazine, but I do have a problem with the pistol grip being larger at the bottom than at the top.

    Now, since the bore axis is slightly lower and out of 'normal' alingment than is seen on other pistols, this isn’t considered a common trend in handguns that are sold in the US. As such, this makes the Glock more unique and can be expressed as “not right” because most people/shooters have shot other weapons in their past and have a certain expectation of how it “should feel”. *see graphic below*

    Now, those that love the platform can say “get used to it” or “it fits me just fine” and the haters can say “it’s all wrong” and it “makes no sense” – but suffice to say, it’s plain different and if the weapon doesn’t feel right, people aren’t going to practice with it, making them a liability more than an asset to you and yours should the need arise. Agreed?

    So, how do we handle ergonomics on the pistol to make it more “across the board” user friendly?

    How about Robar and their offerings for Glock frames/modifications?

    http://www.robarguns.com/glock.htm

    Or their specialized, and customized backstrap, replacement frame?

    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24303/Product/ALL_METAL_FRAMES_for_GLOCK_reg_

    Discuss, but keep it civil and stick to the facts.

    JD
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  2. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    You know my stand on Glocks. If the trigger guard were altered to allow my gloved hand to work without getting the finger caught on the end between trigger and guard, that would be a good first step.

    (yeah, surprise, I said a civil thing about a Glock)
     

  3. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    JD, I applaud your logic but when it comes to certain guns it seems as though emotions rule the day. I'll give you the concrete areas where Glock could make changes and maybe, just maybe convince me to try one again:

    1. Change the grip angle to something like every other pistol.

    2. Remove or change the spacing on those @#$% finger grooves. As they are, they force my middle finger to crush against the trigger guard which is very uncomfortable.

    3. Make the grip on larger caliber Glocks (G21, .45 primarily) feel less like a chunk of 2x4. I've had 2 G21s and I tried to like them as they are cheap to own and easy to maintain - they just feel TERRIBLE in my hand.

    4. Get rid of that damn "Glock Perfection" marketing hype. It ain't true and makes people into fanboys...
     
  4. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Well NGIB, I was trying to create a thread where the two sides could come together and perhaps try to find a middle of the road where the pistol would be better for it and we wouldn't have to fight about it all the damn time.

    Seriously, isn't anyone getting tired of fighting with ourselves? :(

    As for your grip concerns Dave, have you seen these changes that are available from Robar? They will even add a beavertail for slide bite for us big handed folks.

    Would this help your concerns??
     

    Attached Files:

  5. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    You all know how I feel about glocks but I've had about all I can handle of the glock verses everything else that has been on this forum lately. You guys have fun but you can count me out.
     
  6. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Spitty, C'mon man, you have valuable insight into this type of solution and I PROMISE this is not going to degenerate into another pissing contest thread.

    Come back when you feel a bit different because I would really value your insight.

    JD
     
  7. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    Hell just change the trigger to a short pull 1911 and fix the the grips to 1911 standards and I would not have a problem with them, even being poly.

    If it fits me and feels comfortable to target and shoot, I wouldn't care if it was a Glock or a damn Hi-Point. :)
     
  8. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    From what I am supposed to understand from listening to much more educated people than me the lower bore axis of the Glock is supposed to make up for that bit of space on top of the grip. Though other striker fired weapons (as shown in your example) bring things in line a bit differently. The palm swell difference to aid in gripping with smaller hands. In my Glock experience I didn't see any benefit from the bore axis and my hands are not small enough to see any benefit from it's current design. My wife at the time with smaller hands deemed to like the Glock OK but did say she liked some other pistols I had better. Most of which are single stack weapons.

    It seems to be that the "haters" will come back more to the over all look of the weapon rather than it's function. There is no denying the platform works. It was designed as a proper working tool and it fills that need very well. A hammer is not pretty. But it was not made to be. In this mind set the only real drawback if it can be seen as one would be how the Glock platform is the width of the grip that allows for the larger capacities. Shooters with smaller hands will not get the good fit they might find in other weapons that have smaller load capacities. Same reason some Para Ord fiends will not like the Tac Four. It's too wide for some people.

    Grip angle is a plus for some but not others. Many will tell you that it is not near as natural pointing as it should be. But We'll hold on that till we get through the parts discussed in the OP thread.
     
  9. Gojubrian

    Gojubrian New Member

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    My local gunshop has a Robar glock for sale. It has the better grip angle and an all steel frame with plastic interchangable backstraps.

    It's going for $1400 :eek:
     
  10. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Well guys, if you look at the laundry list of complaints that people file about the platform, it runs like a champ isn't one of them.

    Even haters can't deny the damn thing goes boom. If that happening means one of my forum brothers, or sisters, gets to come home to their family at the end of a shift, or a trip to the store in this economy, I would GLADLY endorse it in my sigline because it was proven worth it.

    What we do have is a small list of concerns that can be broken down into a very few basic "problems" that has caused an extreme amount of hate.

    Now, without argument, one of those is Glock Perfection and Fanboy Syndrome. We can't change that. We are stuck with what that is.

    What we can do, as Intelligent, Thinking Members of FTF - THE GREATEST FIREARMS FORUM out there, is work on a solution that will speak to 80% of folks out there.

    C'mon you guys! :(
     
  11. NGIB

    NGIB New Member

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    JD, I actually handled a Glock that had a professional grip reduction done to it - and it made a world of difference. The problem with that is the grip work is expensive and you now have a Glock that feels like the other poly handguns - at a much higher investment. I have no desire to own a $1000 Glock that fits as there a lot of other guns that fit correctly from the factory - at a much lower price.

    The bottom line is if there were no rabid, illogical Glock fanboys - we wouldn't have the constant drama. It isn't gun, it's the attitude of the legion of fanboys that keeps the crap flowing...
     
  12. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Bonus. We are onto something here. This is an endorsed start.

    Well if we could appropriate a used Glock, one of the turn ins by a police force or something like that, at a bargain price and we could get the grip reduction done without breaking the bank, would we have an acceptable starting point NGIB?

    I am merely trying to create an acceptable platform that can bridge some of the hate into a "lesser common denominator evil" type of pistol. :)

    At this point I am feeling the need to find a used GLock at a good price and build the FTF Edition - but apparently it will be all my ideas because no one is offering crap in this thread towards a finished product. :(

    JD
     
  13. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    You are talking about our Glock owning forum members who have not contributed their suggestions of improvement to this thread yet...yes? :confused:
     
  14. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Yes. We have not addressed the three or four BIGGEST complaints. I offer a link to an option and hear it's too expensive, but NO ONE is offering JACK ( no pun intended ) towards an FTF Glock finished product. :(
     
  15. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    JD I love ya like the brother you are but...........

    This is a NOBLE endeavor (and one I think we should pursue) but what you are faced with is an issue similar to health care and its great debate here in the U.S.

    And for this analogy, I’m happy to be on the “I hate health care!” side of the issue.
     
  16. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    My biggest problem is the trigger and trigger guard. I have no problems with the Sigma. I know there is not that much difference between the two, but there is enough there to turn me off of Glocks.
     
  17. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    LOL - And I love you too brother. I was merely trying to find a common ground for both sides.

    I realize this thread is destined for hell, but before we reach Chiron, I might, just MIGHT, get a consenus of the next evolution of this platform that might sell millions. :p

    I'll invite you to my palace in Vienna. :D

    JD
     
  18. spittinfire

    spittinfire New Member Supporter

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    Alright, I had a couple of slices of pizza and calmed down a little. At JD's request, here is my response.

    1. Put a real safety on it. Having the lone safety on the trigger is pointless and does nothing in preventing the weapon from going off. I won't say it needs a manual but a back strap safety would be a big step.
    2. Ditch the polygonally rifling.
    3. Grip angle has been mentioned.
    4. How about a stainless mag like the rest of the world? Polymer is cool but let's not overstress it's coolness. Stainless is way cooler....

    Why does the ejector need to be so darn sharp? It works but does it really need to be razor like?

    If it is truely modular like mentioned in another thread, that is a plus for a military weapon as it was originally designed.

    I always knew cane was a nancy.....
     
  19. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Pizza? My new dieting self hates you. :p

    Spitty, I am glad you came back and welcome your input. I may not jump right on building Excalibur-Glock, but you never know. :cool: As such, I want all my guys weighing in.

    1. - I agree that the weapon needs a different trigger and in-effect, moving the safety elsewhere. I think this is a common complaint and it's an easy to fix problem. The trigger is for going bang, not trying to do double duty. I am still doing some research on this issue. I might need to take this to Brett and see what he has in the dark recesses of his Mad Scientist mind.

    2. - Well, H&K is using this same technology and no one is *****ing about their weapons. I had an H&K ( USP Tactical ) for several years. That pistol ate everything I ever fed it, never had a FTE or FTF and was on target at what I pointed it at. my biggest complaint was the how big the god damn thing was. I don't have a problem with polyagonal rifling as experienced thus far.

    3. - I think if you look at the Robar offerings, you will see an improvement. It's not perfect, but it's MUCH better as NGIB has offered. I would like to try this grip, and the angle, and see if I like it better than the stock Glock offering.

    4. - Hmmm, I am betting that Cane and his friends at Tripp would say that the ideal balance would be a bit of both. Perhaps we can talk to Tripp about an advanced Glock mag??

    I have not heard anything about the extractor before this post. Please elaborate with some examples. This is honestly new to me. :confused:

    JD
     
  20. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Watch it or I'll beat you to within an inch of your life.........with my purse!

    And JD, Virgil Tripp doesn't like health care either.