The Fall of Detroit?

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by TLuker, May 8, 2012.

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  1. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

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    A coworker was commenting on a recent news story. Apparently the city of Detroit decided to let old abandon buildings burn rather than put out the fires. My coworker's comments reminded me of a documentary that showed some of those old abandoned buildings before they were abandoned. Many of them were grand and beautiful places 50 years ago. Today, I couldn't help but to wonder if that's what the fall of Rome looked like? I also couldn't help but to wonder how many other city's will share the same fate?

    There are ghost towns that resulted from running out of natural resources like gold or silver, but I can't think of anything like the decline of so many cities in the "Rust Belt", other than the Fall of Rome. I also can't help but to think the trend is going to continue. I figured GM was on the way out when it announced Oldsmobile was going extinct. It only made sense that rest of the corporation would go the same way since the same people that ran a once great company like Oldsmobile into the ground were the same people managing the rest of the corporation. Now I'm thinking the same thing about the rest of the country. Are the people that run all of the other industries and city/state governments any different than those in Detroit?

    So is this what the decline of an Empire looks like, or is Detroit and the Rust Belt an anomaly?
     
  2. krisko09

    krisko09 New Member

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    "All good things must come to an end" is just the first of many phrases that come to mind.

    Courage is not the lack of fear, but the willingness to continue despite that fear.
     

  3. mountainman13

    mountainman13 New Member

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    Every great civilization throughout history has fallen.
     
  4. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    even Rome fell! and they one of the biggest empires in the world.
     
  5. rjd3282

    rjd3282 New Member

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    Detroit has had a democrat for mayors since 1962. So for the last 50 years Detroit has been crumbling under democrat rule, anybody see a correlation?
     
  6. 2ndAmendmentFreedom

    2ndAmendmentFreedom New Member

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    The United States will follow Detroit's path if we don't steer it now.
     
  7. krisko09

    krisko09 New Member

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    Agreed. The time to act is now and if we don't, our nation is doomed to suffer the same fate as so many others.

    Courage is not the lack of fear, but the willingness to continue despite that fear.
     
  8. Ranger-6

    Ranger-6 New Member

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    The citizens of this once-great nation are too bipolar to change the course of internal destruction. Corporations got wind of the deterioration of country's education system and bailed for the strengths of smarter nations.

    Look at me, when I am naked I am an American; when I am clothed I am a Chinese; when I am eating I am Brazilian; when I am watching TV or listening to the radio I am Japanese; and when I drive my car I use Arab oil.

    I am a man of many nations other than the nation I live in.
     
  9. Jim1611

    Jim1611 New Member

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    Detroit has recieved mega bailouts to help with this problem, more proof that said bailouts didn't work as we were told. Detroit was made by the industry that surrounds making cars. The libs have been running the show there for years as well as the unions. This is what happens when they are in charge folks.
     
  10. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    {sigh}
    I've lived in Detroit area for most of my life. The problem is a multi faceted complex issue, but will add that Detroit (aka the economic engine) has tended to be a bell weather for the entire country... But I digress

    Two big issues have driven Detroit's issues.

    1. the union stranglehold on the city's workers with ridiculous work rules and absolutely no incentive to do things better or faster. I remember my ex father in law trying to sell his home and the city's inspector visiting the house 4 times to approve, JUST THE FURNACE. He didn't have to pay for each trip, only the low $20 inspection fee, but they sure made it worth their while to keep coming out.

    2. Detroit is actually a small portion of the Metro Detroit area. The surrounding suburbs expanded unmitigated, financed by the state and feds. Commonly referred to as white flight. The area expanded out more than the population required, with the population in the city significantly dropping, while the services did not.

    With all this is going on, the city kept borrowing to meet their budgets, the fraud went on steroids, tax paying citizens kept moving out, schools got worse... etc. It is in a downward spiral that has led to a popular reverend making the very public statement, we will burn this city to the ground before we allow the state to take over.
     
  11. HockaLouis

    HockaLouis New Member

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    I will let Partdeux tell you about Hell Night, but first...

    The average home in Detroit sells for, is it, $7,500 now? And they have been tearing them DOWN, forget about just letting them burn...
     
  12. Ranger-6

    Ranger-6 New Member

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    When the slugs and hoodies burn the city to the ground, the rat circle will expand outward and engulf corruption to its outer limit, slowly infecting the entire planet.
     
  13. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    Devil's night is no longer... that was years ago.

    There's actually some history behind the slaves, slave owners and crop burning. Comment was made about the good reverend admitting and agreeing he thinks of himself and his flock as slaves.

    The city is still, STILL spending MILLIONS more then they bring in through revenue. They have a large area to provide services to, archaic services, over extended union contracts, and an incredible amount of fraud. Not until they can no longer continue, will it begin to change.

    And it is spreading. I'm on the outskirts of the metro area, and we have detroit kids being driven all the way out here, claiming to live with relatives and getting on the school buses. Bad part, they are bringing their attitudes and problems with them.
     
  14. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

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    Do think other city's are likely to experience the same problems as Detroit? Or do think Detroit was much further gone than most places and therefore this decline is limited to Detroit?
     
  15. partdeux

    partdeux Well-Known Member

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    I think most city's are going to experience the same problems as Detroit. But will also add that Detroit is in a really really deep hole.

    City's in general are facing three major issues, declining revenue, increasing costs, and increasing obligations. None of these are conducive for long term survival. They don't respond to like a business need to, partially because their elected leaders all too frequently have zero business world experience and more tend to have ideals.
     
  16. downsouth

    downsouth New Member

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    I know Memphis is in decline and has been for decades. In the 70s it got cleanest city in the nation. Now it was just named fatest city in the country. Top five in crime most years. There is a huge fight going on about the schools. Memphis city schools system is one of the worst in the country. The board gave up their charter so now the county system has to take it over. There will be an election for a new board with the majority of the failed city school board members probably filling the majority of the new board. The county schools were very good. I'm glad my youngest graduates next year before it goes into effect.
     
  17. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

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    On a microcosmic scale, the decline of a city like Detroit is similar to the decline of an empire on a megacosmic scale.

    The underlying issues are always going to be economic.

    And the decline and decay are always going to be about corruption and debt accumulation.

    Modern businesses can sustain their existence long after they have already stopped producing anything effective simply based on speculation in their stock shares and by borrowing from gullible lenders. The USA is doing that exact same thing based on international speculation on our currency and gullible lenders like the Euro-Zone and like mainland China. It is very lucky for all of us that our paper printed dollars that roll off their printing presses seem to have some kind of value to currency speculators in Europe and Asia.

    That's exactly what most of the State and the Federal governments do now as well. Spending is out of control and that will kill us. Tax cuts are out of control also, and that will also kill us.

    The USSR is the most recent empire to become bankrupted and then cease to exist. Prior to them it was the British, back in the 1800s, as well the French just before them. The Spanish empire eventually also suffered this fate earlier, as did several Mayan and Aztek empires before them.

    Rome had evolved into a world wide thug state that did nothing more than rob and pillage other lesser empires. This balloon also burst finally in 476 AD. But from 500 BC to 476 AD was almost 1000 years of success for the Romans. And the verly last vestige of ancient Rome, the Roman Catholic Church, is still with us even now today, almost 2000 years after the birth of Christ.

    The most likely model for the scenario for the future of the USA lies with what we have recently seen with the USSR. History, especially recent history, is really our only guide.

    And then like Russia, Ukraine, and Georgia, and the various other former USSR states, we may then see Texas, Florida, New York, Ohio, Illinois, and California spin off as well, and form new republics, to finally take the place of the USA when the USA is finally totally bankrupt and without any further redeeming value itself.

    You can see it start to happen in small places like Detroit already, sure. But the fall of Washington will be titanic when it finally happens, at the rate we are going now.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  18. downsouth

    downsouth New Member

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    You left out some recent history. Germany, Hungary and Zimbawe.
     
  19. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

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    True, but I thought of Germany in the process.

    Germany had a leader who started out as a genius and ended up as an insane tyrant. He made two major mistakes, which together did him in. Either one was bad enough. But both together were fatal and unavoidable.

    He was at his zenith right after the conquest of France. At that point the Germans loved him as a god. If he were not addicted to more power already, he should have stopped there. Then Germany would have ruled Europe for at least another 50 years, like the Soviets later did, if not forever.

    But his first mistake was attacking Russia.

    Then even worse, his second mistake was signing a treaty with Ja pan. The Ja panses treaty killed him. Because when the Ja panese attacked Pearl Harbor, which was their own first mistake, as far as their short lived empire goes, then the US Congress declared war on Ja pan, forcing Germany by its treaty to declare war on the USA. That was the doom and end of the Third German Empire. And also the end of the first Ja panese Empire as well.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  20. Shoobee

    Shoobee New Member

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    The Hungarians I honestly have not studied that much about.

    And Africa really does not interest me at all, other than the rise of Mohammet and of Osama, who are both gone now, but both of whom have left violent legacies behind them which live on.
     
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