The Dead Mans Ten seconds?

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by Rex in OTZ, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Active Member

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    I never head of the term before till last night reading the little black bood of violence (what every young man should know about fighting), Ive hunted for decades and know that a critter like a person can do a whole lotta moving round after sustaining a fatal blow.
    In many stories of fighting men continuing to fight heroically for ten or more seconds after taking a fatal blow, oftentimes mortally wounding and defeating their opponents before succumbing to their injuries.

    wayofnoway.com

    The Tao of Derek: The Little Black Book of Violence - Review
     
  2. jon1992d

    jon1992d New Member

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    I think it has something to do with your brain and heart not stopping because of the massive adrenaline rush going on in your body. I have heard of the term and you see it in just about every war movie one of the heros is about to die and kills his apponent then dies or saves someones life etc. The human body and will is a mysterious thing. Cage a human in or put there back against the wall they tyrn into a tiger doing wutever it takes.
     

  3. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Short of concussing or disrupting the brain or the spinal cord up high, the only way to stop a truly determined (or stoned) person is to shoot large bits off the body until it quits working.

    This is why I am so leery of small caliber handguns for defense. Yes, a .22 can kill you. But what happens in that period between getting shot and getting dead?

    I think the term is "Bad ju-ju". Very bad.
     
  4. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Rex,

    After reading this post it comes as no surprise! I thought about my hunting trip to Texas this season when I shot a 10 Point Buck. Comparing this to what we are talking about regarding the 10 Seconds. Animals are not unlike man and maybe even have more of an instinct to escape and live. To the point! I shot this deer with a Remington 7MM Mag. 150 grain Accutip Bullet. The bullet turned his lungs to mush and shredded the heart as we observed when we dressed the Buck out! Moral of the story after taking this devastating hit he ran for at an estimated 10 seconds and traveled 75 yards before wobbling and going down. The comments in this post reminded me of this incident and I think it is very relevant to a human. Look at the FBI shooting years ago in Miami with Platt and Maddox. Platt took a fatal hit in the first few minutes of confrontation and finished the gun battle with the FBI and Miami Police. That is a great example also!

    03
     
  5. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    The heart and lungs work to get blood and oxygen to the muscles and the brain. Even when you shut off the pump the blood already there can sustain movement for several seconds. That's why snipers shoot to sever the spinal cord at the base of the brain. The signals are still being sent but the connection is severed. As a wise man once told me...you can be killed by a dying man but not a dead one.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
  6. Scratchammo

    Scratchammo New Member

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    One word, "Mozambique".
     
  7. towboater

    towboater Active Member

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7LELNCscpc]Mozambique drill. Triple tap (2 body shots 1 head) Glock 19 - YouTube[/ame]
     
  8. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    i had a similar experience in a just the opposite way but it goes to the point.

    bouncing around in a atv all day my 458 socom with nikon scope the scope was thrown off about 18 inches right of poa. i didnt know it and shot a doe. poa was heart and lung area. the bullet went in just in front of the rear leg and JUST under the spine. it didnt hit any bones but the shock of the 350grn round nose at 1600fps dropped the deer dead in its tracks. nothing vital was hit but the shockwave was transmitted to the spinal column killing the deer instantly.

    later test firing confirmed the scope drift. it might have been the rings maybe the scope. going tomorrow to re-sight it in. using leupold mark4 super-high co-witness 1" aluminum rings instead of standard issue 1" 24$ rings.

    had that bee a 223 that deer would been in the next county before it expired.

    anyway its just my personal experience and re-affirms my belief in using big heavy bullets over small light ones whenever possible.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
  9. Scratchammo

    Scratchammo New Member

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    Yep, that's hydrostatic shock. Theoretically if your projectile hits with at least 500 pounds of force that's what would happen. That's why I pack a .357 Mag.
     
  10. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    ya i would like a 357mag carry but that round in the 158grain at the appropriate 357 mag speed in a small carry semi auto doesnt exist.

    i do know about the 357sig but its not in the same class as a 158grn loading in the 357mag
     
  11. Scratchammo

    Scratchammo New Member

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    Then I'd say a Glock in 10mm is right up your alley.
     
  12. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Cant stand glocks. Just not an ergonomic gun for me.

    But 10mm is intriguing just havent seen a platform in that chambering im happy with yet. If springfield makes a xdm in carry format i would be there. Anything that gives that extra edge in a gun thats fits my use needs is a good thing.

    Shaving that ten seconds down may save a life
     
  13. Scratchammo

    Scratchammo New Member

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    I'm not a Glock fan either. I'd recommend this bad boy: 38880 - EAA Witness Compact Semi Automatic Handgun 10mm 3.6" Barrel 12 Rounds Black Rubber Grips Wonder Finish
     
  14. arizona

    arizona New Member

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    I have read more than one report of men staying up and in the fight after being hit with rifle rounds and shot gun slugs. There was one well documented case of an Army ranger Lt. being hit by the a the Russian equivalent of a fifty caliber machine gun round during the fight in Granada. He remained on his feet long enough to direct his men in destroying a BMP. From what I have read most adrenalized fit individuals have enough oxygenated blood in them to remain on their feet for 30 seconds after being hit in the heart. Think cover! Think shooting to slide lock.
     
  15. bick65

    bick65 New Member

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    It's all about energy light bullet going fast has lots of impact too . My son .257 Roberts drops a deer almost every year never goes more than 20 yards . The bullets speed is going 3500 fps 100 grain bullet . I agree deer can run a bit with lungs and heart gone so can a person . The distance a deer goes will be longer two leaps they cover lots more ground compared to a person running.
     
  16. ofitg

    ofitg New Member

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    Somewhere I read that the pelvis is a good aiming point, providing that your handgun is powerful enough to break the bone. The pelvis is a nice wide target, and being the center of mass, it doesn't bob & weave like the head does.

    Breaking a man's pelvis won't put his lights out, but it will anchor him to the floor.
     
  17. TLuker

    TLuker New Member

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    There's some places you just don't shoot a man. It ain't cool:eek:
     
  18. CarlsbadRanger06

    CarlsbadRanger06 New Member

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    As a Sniper, there are a couple places on the human body that, if shot, result in instant death. granted, these places cannot ALWAYS be hit, but they are definite aiming points if possible.

    1- Aiming for the nose, upper lip, or sometimes even the mouth.
    This sends the bullet through the head and the top of the spinal cord/brain stem. Because it will effectively blow out the top if the spinal cord and brain stem, the body instantly drops and shuts down. There is no after effect or twitching nerves or muscular reactions caused by neurons firing randomly throughout the body. Why? The brain stem connects the brain to the rest of the central nervous system. Sort of like a data cable connected to your keyboard/mouse. Unplug it, neither will work.

    2- Throat/top of breastplate.
    If successfully shot, the bullet will pass through and sever the spine/neck. This area also plays a large role in movement. Just as "breaking the neck" will result in almost always instant death, a bullet can do even more damage. This will also cause transitive damage up the throat/trachea and, depending on angle and/or size of projectile, can also possibly cause severe trauma to the main arteries in the neck, thus resulting in rapid blood loss and exanguination ;)
     
  19. AZL

    AZL New Member

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    I call that "PLAN B".

    If you cannot stand up, you cannot fight. I call it the ultimate failure drill.

    If two solid THWACKS to the high center chest do not remove your assailant's ability to fight...shoot out the pelvis. If he can't stand up, he can't fight effectively. YES...he can still shoot..BUT the head has become a much LESS MOBILE target, and thus easier to hit that when it is on a "swivel mount" on a mobile firing platform.

    The best hit is obviously a high central nervous sytem hit...the medula oblongata is BEST...like throwing a switch..but it's hell to hit in the middle of a moving fight.
     
  20. CarlsbadRanger06

    CarlsbadRanger06 New Member

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    Medulla Oblongata! That's the proper term! I had a case of the major brain farts and couldn't remember the fancy term. Too much egg nog tonite. Haha