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Discussion Starter · #1 ·


The Army has found its replacements for the M4 rifle and M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, handing out a contract to put new guns in the hands of tens of thousands of soldiers.
The force is awarding a 10-year, $20.4 million contract to Sig Sauer for the XM5 Rifle, which will become the new standard rifle for soldiers, and the XM250 Automatic Rifle, which will replace the SAW.
The service will also switch from 5.56mm ammo to 6.8mm, after a search for rounds better built to penetrate body armor.

"Both weapons fire common 6.8 millimeter ammunition utilizing government provided projectiles and vendor-designed cartridges," an Army spokesperson said in a press release. "The new ammunition includes multiple types of tactical and training rounds that increase accuracy and are more lethal against emerging threats than both the 5.56mm and 7.62mm ammunition."
The news comes after a 27-month evaluation process in which other defense contractors, including General Dynamics, competed to be the Army's go-to small arms dealer.
The weapons will include the XM157 Fire Control optic, which includes a laser range finder, ballistic calculator, visible and infrared lasers, and a compass. That optic is made by Vortex Optics.
It's unclear how many weapons the Army aims to buy over the decade, or how quickly soldiers will totally ditch the decades-old SAW and rifle. In its proposed 2023 budget, the force is requesting 29,046 new weapons. But that budget still needs to be approved by Congress"


Civilian version FS:

I have been following this process for years and am unimpressed.
The requirements about enemy body armor supposedly as the primary driver of this "upgrade" are IMHO contrived.
Most hits in combat are in the extremities anyway and infantry troops still use cover whenever possible even if they wear body armor.
Plus the ammo is heavier so the combat load will therefore be reduced

A simpler/cheaper solution would have been to simply add a couple DMRs in 7.62x51 to squads in contact in terrain either devoid of vegetation or mountainous where better ballistics shines and may be worth the tradeoffs.

No doubt some folks will now feel the need to transition their personal armaments but that would IMH be a misdirection.

A quality AR15 Carbine would make me feel better armed (lighter/more ammo) over someone carrying this contraption, with the exception of long range engagements (which even though these may loom large in peoples minds they have always been only a small slice of infantry combat)

if there is concern about ballistic performance we could have done what the Indians did and simply adopted the Sig 716 for less money and ammo compatibility with existing (huge) 7.62x51mm stocks, in order to man their infantry troops in the high mountains.

 

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The more bells & whistles, the more that can go wrong. .762 x 51 is a proven effective cartridge and goodness knows we have a lot of that caliber on hand and dispersed to every branch & allies. This is dumb.
 

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Bigcat,

Thanks for the article! Do you know if that is the normal 6.8 SPC round or a different 6.8?

Yes, I remember when they took my beloved M-14 from me and issued me "Matty Matel". I was not happy when comparing the effectiveness of the M-14 to the M-16 rifle. The only thing that made me feel better was the 2 ea M-14 Match Rifles I was issued latter on when I shot on one of the Army Rifle Teams for two years. Love those M-14s! (y)
But that is why today, I own a Springfield Armory M-1 A.


03
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Bigcat,

Thanks for the article! Do you know if that is the normal 6.8 SPC round or a different 6.8?

.277 Fury is 6.8 x 51mm
6.8 SPC is 6.8x 43mm.
So actually it has quite a bit more punch.
While 6.8 SPC was about halfway between 5.56 and 7.62x51mm in weight and performance the .277 Sig Fury is much higher pressure round and performs "hotter" than both 7.62x51 and 6.5 Creed.
The military designation for .277 Sig Fury is 6.8 Common Cartridge , or simply 6.8 CC to reflect the Army's resolve to bring it to widespread issue.

More info Here:
 

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Bigcat,

Thank you for the Article. I copy and pasted it to my Lap Top. Only thing with those pleasures if they ever have a blow up it is going to be a catastrophic blow up! But I am impressed with the capabilities. The enemy will shake in their boots with this round in our militaries hands! I LIKE!
Tool Font Bicycle part Hand tool Auto part

Here is the results of a Barrel Obstruction in a 16 in AR-15 at around 60000 psi. The Receiver came apart as well in four pieces. It even blew the picatinny rail off the top of the Receiver.

03
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Bigcat,

Thank you for the Article. I copy and pasted it to my Lap Top. Only thing with those pleasures if they ever have a blow up it is going to be a catastrophic blow up! But I am impressed with the capabilities. The enemy will shake in their boots with this round in our militaries hands! I LIKE!
View attachment 257605
Here is the results of a Barrel Obstruction in a 16 in AR-15 at around 60000 psi. The Receiver came apart as well in four pieces. It even blew the picatinny rail off the top of the Receiver.

03

I believe this high pressure ammo (I look at it a bit as a magnum version of 6.8 SPC, like .357 magnum is of 38 SPC) is responsible for the rifle being so expensive.
only the highest quality steel chambers can handle this safely.

I think this would be a great firearm to issue out as 2 per squad as a DMR and mild cover puncher but I do not believe it should replace the standard issue M4, which is light, affordable and effective in 90% of situations the M5 will be.

I predict the USMC will follow the Army's lead on this rifle though.
 

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I believe this high pressure ammo (I look at it a bit as a magnum version of 6.8 SPC, like .357 magnum is of 38 SPC) is responsible for the rifle being so expensive.
only the highest quality steel chambers can handle this safely.

I think this would be a great firearm to issue out as 2 per squad as a DMR and mild cover puncher but I do not believe it should replace the standard issue M4, which is light, affordable and effective in 90% of situations the M5 will be.

I predict the USMC will follow the Army's lead on this rifle though.
Aren't they running like 80,000 psi?
 

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5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO at just a touch above 60,000 PSI when measured with the NATO method.
This new round at 80,000 PSI is a third again as hot.
Okay, yeah. That's what i was thinking.
I know they have run the cartridge and firearm through their paces. But pop on a suppressor, then throw it in the sand with an 18 year old ... 80K in a larger round ... i wonder if stuff starts to break?
I guess we'll see.

I still think the only viable argument is if they are preparing for body armor worn by friends from out of town. 👽
 

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From a traditional battle rifle, (M-14), to the lighter, more compact "assault rifle," (M-16, M-4), back to a battle rifle, (6.8 Sig). It'll be awhile before the final version of the new weapon is issued, but just looking at photos? All I can say is, I'm glad I won't have to hump it, along with basic load and field ruck.
 

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Yes, 80,000 PSI. I read some of the early stuff when it was announced. The pressure went so high because one of the requirements was 3,000 FPS from a carbine length rifle and the pressure was SIG's solution to that.

Additionally, the 80,000 PSI rounds use a 3-piece cartridge case. The head of the cartridge is stainless steel married to a brass body using a steel washer.

SIG has had their Cross rifle on the market for some time in the 277 Fury caliber. There is at least one case maker I am aware of that is selling all-brass 277 cases (obviously, it's not for the full on 80,000 PSI loads). They're not cheap at $5 per case. I can only imagine what the high pressure cases are going to cost as that's a lot more time and effort in the manufacturing process to make.

Definitely one caliber that won't be on my "I want it" list.
 
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