The 1911 myths I HATE...

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by Wambli, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    I'm tired of reading the same BS old misconceptions about the 1911, specially when someone decides they need to put a GREAT handgun down to justify their starry eyed love for their Glock (Lord those discussions are soooooo 1980s). So I will take a minute to try to dispel a couple of the biggest thrown around "facts" and what I call "gunstore counter nonsense" that I see repeated over and over as some sort of gospel by the uneducated.

    First and my favorite:
    1911s are unreliable guns. Oh boy, where to even begin. When you hear a statement like that you are listening to someone that has NO practical knowledge of 1911s. To start, with the plethora of manufacturers of 1911's worldwide, this statement is the equivalent of saying "all family sedans are unreliable" just because they are all cars. If someone said that in front of you you'd think it's a stupid statement. Yet when someone utters it as a "fact" when referring to 1911s, the unwashed just go ahhhhhhh, that makes perfect sense!

    Now, why would you lump in every 1911 out there when there are probably hundreds of manufacturers worldwide making a whole hell of a lot of different guns?!?!? The good news is even with that in mind the statement is WRONG! Just like automobiles MOST 1911s are great vehicles if you stick to factual info and not bunk.

    The actual truth is that this old tale came out of a few factors. First the often repeated opinions of thousands of soldiers whose first and only exposure to 1911s came from being handed rattly, parts guns that had been in service since the FIRST WW and had been "reconditioned" with whatever parts were laying around and handed out to troops with no QC of any kind. You ONLY get to hear from the guys that got 50+ year old and older guns because the guys from WWI that got them out of the box and were GRATEFUL for the new gun, are all DEAD! And still the 1911 has the record for the longest serving gun in military history. Hummmmm, wonder why...

    Second, they were also taught how to hold/shoot a gun using an early 1900s manual of arms and issued the latest and greatest crappy magazines made by the lowest bidder. Most of these mags were older than the shooters. These guys have been going around telling everyone that will listen, with the deference earned by veterans of actual wars, that the 1911s are crap, unreliable and inaccurate guns and we believe them because uncle Paul carried one in Europe, Korea, Vietnam etc. BUT the problem is that they were right. In 1960...

    So how do you make a 1911 unreliable? Wear it out until the slide almost falls off the rails, slap in a crappy magazine of antique design and then hold it far down the grip so you can induce limp-wristing failures by letting the gun recoil freely. There's your unreliable 1911.

    Today's 1911s are made out of steels that are much better than the old guns, using the latest CNC machines and modern/consistent heat treating, and we have access to modern world class magazines that can feed just about ANY bullet configuration there is reliably into just about any configuration barrel. Fact is that 99.99999% of the time, almost regardless of manufacturer, if you have a good recoil spring and a decent modern designed magazine you will have a 100% reliable gun.

    You know how I know this? I have a 1940's war production Remington Rand and totally original early 1970's vintage Series 70. Colt almost died because the Model 70 had a reputation of being a finicky eater and often failing to digest hollow point ammo of the time reliably. At the time, if you bought a Colt, the first thing you had to do was send it to your local witch doctor gunsmith to do his magic and get it to run reliably with defensive ammo. THIS almost killed the market for 1911s in the USA.

    Little did we know back then that the whole problem with the gun AND with earlier 1911s like my RR was NOT THE GUN AT ALL, it was those old magazines. Today I bring these two guns to the range and I can run mag after mag of ANY modern HP ammo through them without a hitch. I just can't do it with period correct mags and you most certainly can't do it with cheap *** mags from the $6 bin at the gun show. But once I insert a Wilson Combat or a Kimber Tac mag? I'm off to the races with a flawlessly running machine.

    My favorite counter to this point came from a Glockophile who actually said to me "But good 1911 mags are expensive!!!". REALLY? How much do you pay for factory Glock mags? I buy Wilson Mags for under $30 all day long. Chip McCormick Shooting Stars MATCH for under $20 and my latest batch of 5 OEM 10mm mags my for my Dan Wesson cost me under $20 each on sale. ALL of these run my guns flawlessly. So BIG forehead slap when you hear that...

    This picture should make it EASY to spot the main issue. On the left the follower and lips of a 1960s vintage mag. On the right, the follower and lips of a Wilson Combat mag.

    IMG_0060.jpg

    Second:
    1911's are complicated when you compare them to a Glock. REALLY?!?!?!? The 1911 was designed to be field stripped and REPAIRED with nothing more than it's own parts and the rim of a spent case of .45acp ammo. No need to go to an armorers course and get specialty tools for the old warhorse. So instead of launching into a long explanation just take a look at these two pictures and you can make your own assessment.

    Glock trigger assembly
    [​IMG]

    1911 Trigger
    [​IMG]
    Ha! Interesting no?

    So the next time you hear that one particular jewel of misinformation, just assume the person telling you this has absolutely NO knowledge on the subject at all.

    Third one and my most favorite.
    You need to shoot a 1911 differently. NOPE. You need to shoot a 1911 CORRECTLY. This is what was taught in the old days.
    [​IMG]
    These poor guys were handed a gun, asked to shoot a few mags and sent off to fight. Notice the super low grip taught by bullseye instructors afraid of the hammer biting them.

    THIS is how you grip and fire a 1911. EXACTLY the SAME way you should fire ANY other modern semi-auto handgun. With your hand as HIGH on the grip as possible so you control and manage recoil and not the other way around.
    [​IMG]
    No "limp writing" and no free-recoil, with the added advantage that the reset and trigger motion on a 1911 is measured in TINY LITTLE FRACTIONS of an inch therefore facilitating fast and accurate fire. Not so much in many other guns with more "modern" triggers.

    So in summary, just about any well maintained 1911, old OR new with a good recoil spring, fed quality ammo from a GOOD modern design mag and fired the way it is supposed to be by someone that actually knows what they are doing will be as good and reliable as anything else out there and quite frankly better than most of the options available today.

    Hopefully this will open some folks eyes (maybe even just a tiny fraction) and educate newbies that otherwise will be digesting horrible information. The purely emotional Glockophiles will just seethe with disdain, and I'm all good with that. Have a great day y'all. I know I am. :cool:
     
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  2. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    BUT the biggest and baddest myth is 'THE 45 IS THE BEST MAN STOPPER'!!!:rolleyes:
     

  3. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    Nope but it’s as good as anything else out there, better than most, and some of us like making big holes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
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  4. Dakota1

    Dakota1 Well-Known Member

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    You're partially correct - Not all family sedans are unreliable.
    Just the American ones.
     
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  5. Dakota1

    Dakota1 Well-Known Member

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    85% of police departments don't agree with you. Neither does the FBI. They have the budjet for extensive testing.
    Like many here, my 1911's are range toys; My Glocks are for serious purposes.
    To each his own.
     
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  6. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    And that’s absolute nonsense too.
     
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  7. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I guess if you think a 10th of an inch, AT MOST, is a bigger hole go for it!:D And if you like a bigger, heavier, harder recoiling gun that carries less ammo, again, go for it.:D
    ALL of the data shows that the 9, 40, and 45, WITH MODERN SD AMMO, are within 5% as to the wound cavities produced, but what ever trips your trigger. I like to use logic and an open mind when I evaluate equipment and ammo.;) For MANY years I 'preached' the 45 bible, that is until I actually began studying and testing ammo with an open mind.:)
    To each his own.:D
     
  8. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    Actually the accountants agree since they have to outfit thousands of folks as cheaply as they can. I have the luxury of a very healthy bank balance so I can afford to make my own choices unfettered by a tiny budget so I get what is best for me. The sheep can just blindly follow the accountants and try to put down others choices based on uneducated nonsense.
     
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  9. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The ONLY reason we in LE carry so many glocks is they are CHEAP, AND THOSE WITH A BUDGET GO CHEAP! ;) When it comes to 'marketing' glock is #1, but ANY of the modern top line handguns are GREAT!:cool:
     
  10. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Some can’t handle a .45. I’m so happy I can. I can also handle a 9mm, a .38 special, a .44 mag without any concern and everything in between so I don’t have to cower because of my hands being ouchy... recoil concerns are for untrained newbies.
     
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  11. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    Actually Glocks are cheap AND good handguns. A winning combination. I’m not here to disparage Glocks. I’m here to dispel STUPID 1911 myths.
     
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  12. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    AND some of the older folks.:( I have at least two 'retired' friends who have wrist and/or hand problems and they can no longer handle handguns with the recoil of the 'big bores and/or magnums' handguns!:(
     
  13. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    That’s different and they have my respect. Age and disabilities will get us all in the end.
     
  14. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    True glocks are a good shooting 'machine', but then, as I said, so are many others!;)
     
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  15. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    Actually I’ll go further. Glocks are GREAT fighting guns. So are 1911s. No need to stomp on one (specially using ridiculously wrong misconceptions) to try to elevate the other.
     
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  16. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    So to summarize, pick your guns based on actual FACTUAL information gathered from reliable sources. If you carry a gun because you believe it is “the best” and you must “prove” that everything else is crap to boost your choice, you are missing the target by a wide margin and showing your ignorance.
     
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  17. W.T. Sherman

    W.T. Sherman Well-Known Member

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    well, compared to what the Army was using prior to the .45, namely the .38, it certainly didn't stop the Moro tribesmen who were hopped up on drugs from charging Army patrols and overrunning them even after being shot (Philippine-American War 1899-1913)

    wasn't till they issued with the new M1909 and M1911 pistols that both fired the same round (.45) that things changed. while it didn't stop the Moros dead in their track, it slowed them down quite a bit, like to a few steps before they fell over dead.

    now, I don't know about you, but if some hopped up Moro tribesmen where charging me and several .38 rounds didn't do anything to stop them, and suddenly they issued me with a revolver or pistol that fired a .45, and that stopped them from charging me and eventually killing me, yeah, I would call that a man stopper. wouldn't you?

    trivia for you, the Philippine-American war was when the M1911 first made it's debut in a conflict
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  18. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    I don’t want to speak for Jim but I believe he means when you compare statistics of effectiveness between modern SD 9mm, 40SW and .45acp ammo of the margins of difference are negligible, so why not carry the mildest recoiling and lightest round. You could also infer that these numbers show that the minimum acceptable “effective” round is the 9mm all things being equal and that the bigger rounds are just maybe “more of a good thing”. It’s undeniable that bigger game mandates bigger projectiles. That’s why we hunt elephants with a .458 WinMag and not 30-06s. Average meth skinny is charging me I’m ok pumping him full of 9mm rounds. A 300 lb well muscled dude means me harm? My head instinctively tells me the bigger hammer is better, damn the %s so given a choice I’ll have my .45, thank you. But that’s just me. Some feel cozy enough with a .25 and that’s just dandy too.
     
  19. EclecticShooter

    EclecticShooter Well-Known Member

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    I like most pistols, including 1911s. They're mostly good guns and I think they've proven that. I have one, technically two but one is a .22, for that reason. I'd never pick mine for concealed carry now because I have what I feel are better options. I have holsters to carry them because that's what I started out with. I appreciate my polymer guns imnensely when I carry every day.

    Now that that's out of the way, how about some unpatriotic sacrelige? Time to come out of the closet. I LIKE THE TOKAREV AND CLONES OF IT MORE THAN THE 1911. I like the gun and 7.62 cartridge more. It fits my hand well and I love how slim it is. While we're at it, I like the Beretta 92 even more than both.
     
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  20. Wambli

    Wambli Well-Known Member

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    HEATHEN!!!!!!! :D
     
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  21. Ingramite

    Ingramite Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nobody lies to a .45

    Hell yeah it's dangerous. If it wasn't dangerous I wouldn't be carrying it.

    Here is Chuck Norris' 1911

    Chuck Norris 1911.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019