thank yall, now to my aspirations

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by Kwaynebb, Jan 6, 2011.

  1. Kwaynebb

    Kwaynebb New Member

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    First off I want to thank all of you for putting a stop to my potential 5.7 mistake. I have decided to go ahead and just build my ar and I would like to do so from the ground up. Since this will help spread the cost out I am going to be able to increase the budget considerably. I would like to ask if any experienced builders would be able to point me in the right direction to start this off, so that i can be looking in the right places(possibly a check list). The main reason I want to do this is so that I can have a better understanding of its opperation. I know guns, but little on the AR. This is why I joined this forum. I want to learn more about mechanics, ballistics, and opperations.

    Kyle
     
  2. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Kyle, congratulations on your first step towards one that will no doubt be the first of many.

    Go to the top of this thread section. There are (4) threads "Stickied" to the top about builds that have been done by people here just like you. Look through them, there are parts and pictures and instructions. There is also a ton of good information.

    The first place to start is a good lower. With a lower, it is the only part that needs to go through an FFL, so once you own it, you can modify the hell out of it with different parts and kits all you want and no one can say anything as long as you don't break any federal rules or modify it against the law.

    From there, you need to decide on barrel length and application, because that will determine a lot of the parts that will go into that lower.

    JD
     

  3. Kwaynebb

    Kwaynebb New Member

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    JD i really enjoyed reading some of your posts. very helpfull. any tips on where i can start looking. and im not really looking to go cheap route. i want quality parts. sorry for the ignorance, but im not going to turn away any advice on this one.

    Kyle
     
  4. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    I agree with JD, start looking for a good stripped lower, lower parts kit and stock kit. You can have excellent quality for $250-300. Get the rollmark you like best, it doesn't cost that much more and you'll be proud to have it on your build.

    Put thought into the stock and you won't have to buy twice. As far as the LPK, most will do but think about single stage or two stage triggers. Personally I like a quality milspec single stage kit and Stag has a real good one for about $69. Clean milspec trigger.

    Uppers will take even more research so take your time on that. No reason to be in a hurry, be sure when you buy.
     
  5. russ

    russ New Member

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    As Quentin and JD both said, figure out what you want this AR to do for you before you start buying parts. It will help reduce the size of your "leftover AR parts" pile. There are some really knowledgeable and helpful people here.
     
  6. Kwaynebb

    Kwaynebb New Member

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  7. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    You can get custom rollmarks, and even lowers that are customized to your wants.

    The lowers come in three categories.

    Cast

    Forged

    Billet

    Read this page from Olympic and it will help you understand two of the different types of lower receivers.

    Olympic Arms, Inc. - Is my receiver cast or forged?

    And then there is Billet. Which is the top of the line and completely, completely not necessary in your first AR unless you have more money than sense or time. :)

    Basically the lower can be made out of wood or plastic, because it holds the pieces of the lower parts kit and it performs the function of holding them in place.

    Now the sturdier that lower is, obviously the better it's going to be, but when you take a look at the whole weapon, the UPPER is the key to accuracy. Believe it or not an upper will fire WITHOUT a lower if you strike the firing pin and have the upper in a vice.

    The key to accuracy with an AR is the parts. No question (other than shooter, wind, ammo, etc. which are the obvious ones).

    Get a decent quality lower, from a name brand that is made here in the US and you will be fine. You don't need titanium and platinum for your upper and lowers to build a good weapon.

    JD
     
  8. Kwaynebb

    Kwaynebb New Member

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    As far as parts go what should I be focusing on. I am looking at the DPMS lower if that makes a difference. My main intentions of this gun will be the occasional hunt, Im not a big target shooter but I feel that once I have a gun like this that may change, so I would like to be able to group a few rounds together, but in saying that im not looking for a competition shooter. I like the match trigger from the few I have had my hands on, and from what I have heard from other people. Other than that I dont know what else to look for, so once again I am going to turn to the all knowing.. all seeing.. JD

    Kyle
     
  9. RARGuns

    RARGuns New Member

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    You can do a lot better than DPMS for $110. Spikes, Del-Ton and AGP just to name a few. If you want to have a really nice, high quality AR a Noveske Match set upper and lower ($260.) is a great place to start. If you want a billet set, Quentin Defense and Sun Devil Manufacturing Match ($280.) sets are a great affordable option.
     
  10. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    Quentin Defense upper and lower

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    Kyle, I appreciate the shout out but there are PLENTY of members here with a vastly greater technical understanding of the platform than I am.

    Quetin, slowrdy45, mjkeat and our latest vendor R.A.R. ALL have a wealth of knowledge to draw from. I was merely here first and wanted to get some good information out there for folks looking for information for their first buy/build.

    There is nothing wrong with the DPMS unit, but one of the things that is a common, behind the scenes untalked about fact, is that there are about 2 or 4 production houses that turn out MOST of the production receivers for a lot of companies and just place different roll marks on the same unit.

    So find a lower, and matching upper if you can, THAT YOU LIKE. It doesn't matter what any one of us likes, it matters what you like, because it's your money and it will be your rifle.

    Now when I was talking about deciding what you wanted to use the rifle for AFTER buying your lower is when we get into the lower parts kit and what kind of parts you will be looking for. Specially in the trigger and the pistol grip.

    In most folks opinion a really cool, breaks like glass, $150-$200 drop in two stage trigger on a 16" mil spec, Minute of Bad Guy perimeter rifle is going to be a waste of money. It is not going to drastically improve your performance. A stock GI trigger with just a little free tuning is going to give you great results in this type of weapon.

    Now if you want to build a 20" or 24" varmint rifle that is built for sub MOA accuracy out to 500 or 600 yards, you are going to REALLY want to spend the extra cash and get a truly great two stage trigger because it will GREATLY improve your accuracy.

    So you are looking at DPMS for your lower. It's a very nice unit, and if you are happy with it, that is fine. But what is YOUR end result goal for application and your definition of accuracy for it when you are done?

    From there, we can help you design exactly what you are looking for brother. As in the build threads above, there are people who started in this EXACT position and ended up with some great rifles.

    Give it some thought and get back to us.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
  12. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    I dont remember if there was a price point.

    The way I look at purchasing an AR w/ prices being so competitive is, why not spend a little extra for a lot more. You can build a lower but its hard to beat a BCM blem for $290 complete. It'll have everything installed and staked properly. I dont currently own one but BCM has a cult following w/ the upper echelon of professionals to your beat cops. Theres no better testament than that in my eyes. I would recommend Daniel Defense stripped lowers but they are really hard to find right now. As far as building an upper Ive done that a couple times. I would recommend purchasing a complete upper as well. Again BCM is first to come to mind. If you can wait a month DD uppers will be back on sale, hopefully. I have a DD upper that is super solid. I think I figured a complete BCM, upper and lower ordered separately, will run roughly over $800. Thats really dang good for a professional grade AR.

    If you decide to build the BCG and barrel are going to be your key points of interest. Again DD and BCM jump out first. Noveske however makes really nice barrels according to the word on the street. Accurate and bullet proof but towards the top of the price scale. White Oak Armament makes good barrels as well.

    Just research and ask questions. Remember a lot of the time you can get a much better product for just slightly more.
     
  13. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    Very true.

    Kwaynebb If you must have an improved trigger there are guys who can rework your mil spec.

    I have a Timmney in my 14.5" DD. I agree it is a little over board but it sure shoots fast. It could see how it might be unsafe if used on the job. It is designed to break really easy and w/o much pressure.
     
  14. Quentin

    Quentin New Member

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    Good advice already from JD and mjkeat. I really can't add any more, they're taking good care of you. Besides I'm certainly no expert, just learning all I can from others like them who know so much more. Just take your time and do as much research as you can, you'll be surprised how much you learn in a short time. Look at what other have done and learn from them.

    Of course if you like the DPMS lower, go for it but I'd look at other rollmarks just in case. You might find something distinctive that you'd be proud to start a build on. Probably the best advice I can give is don't be in a hurry, savor this period where you're soaking up knowledge. Then make purchases when you're sure.
     
  15. Kwaynebb

    Kwaynebb New Member

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    Well I really dont know much about the who's who of AR's. Just from what I have looked at the DPMS has been at the top of my list as far as my price range(complete off the shelf). Since I have decided to build one I keep forgeting that I can spread the price out and I dont have to settle. Also I need a AR's for Dummies list. Well I am heading out tomorrow with a friend to do some hunting. He says he knows a gunsmith in the city who handles a lot of AR's, so hopefully I will be getting some more info tomorrow. Once again guys thank you all for answering to my posts. I know yall have answered all these questions 200 times before, but I really am appreciative. Im willing to take any help I can get. thank you

    By the way I am still curious about the "cool" factor, or im just interested in personalizing a bit. How do you get lowers with custom rollmarks


    Kyle
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
  16. RARGuns

    RARGuns New Member

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    Most don't come with custom roll marks. You can get them with custom laser engraving pretty easy. Custom roll marks require a resetting of the CNC machine which takes time and money. You can get a custom engraved lower for around $165.

    Most of your accuracy will come from the barrel and bolt assembly. This is why it's important to get quality when it comes to both.

    As stated, Daniel Defense has suspended all sale of stripped lowers until futher notice due to high demand on complete rifles right now.

    As far as DPMS goes, the lowers are fine. Their rifles have an unusually high return rate due to poor quality control during assembly. Their resale value doesn't seem to be as high as other brands. I should mention that if you do get DPMS that works (95% do), they are fine and many people love them and they give a life time of good service. This is why I suggested a different lower. Plus the fact that Spikes, DTI and AGP are less expensive and seem to carry a stronger reputation. Of the three I mentioned, AGP is the nicest. They do their own machining and they have a unique feature which allows you to adjust the trigger travel by turning a screw behind the trigger guard.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
  17. Kwaynebb

    Kwaynebb New Member

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    Okay so I looked at CMG and I really like the looks it and it is $89. With your order you can add a RRA parts kit for $70. Is this good or not? Advice for the noob please.
     
  18. dog2000tj

    dog2000tj New Member

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    $160 for a lower and parts kit seems pretty darn good. ;)
     
  19. diggsbakes

    diggsbakes New Member

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    I would've given the exact same links, except for the Surplus Arms & Ammo lower. I got one and proceeded to install an AR stoner parts kit I found on Clearance somewhere. Almost everything required some fitting. I'm talkin' from the bolt catch, to the pistol grip and even the trigger/dis connector holes. However, once I got it in it's almost just the same as my other lowers.