Target match rifle build.

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by kpatricn, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. kpatricn

    kpatricn New Member

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    Alright fellow shooters any wisdom will be appreciated, I love shooting and want to get into target match shooting,problem is I know squat about guns. I think I have a good starter rifle it's a Turkish Mauser 98 I think with a 30-06 barrel. Will that work for what I want? I have no idea if it's a large ring or small ring Mauser, how do you tell?
     
  2. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    kpatricn,

    We would like to see some pictures to give us a better look at the rifle. In addition what kind of matches are you looking at doing?

    03
     

  3. kpatricn

    kpatricn New Member

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    Well I was thinking benchrest shooting, I got a rifle blank stock from Boyds. I'm going to build the stock myself at least try anyways. I just want it the be versatile so if I want to go hunting with it I won't have a cumbersome stock on it. The first set of pics are the 30-06, I have also thought of turning my Nagant into a long ranger I think it is an underrated rifle the other set of pics is it.
    The 30-06 has a 24" barrel I've been toying with the idea of a bull barrel the mosin was thinking of getting a barrel from a 91/30 so I would have the length the m44 looks to be only 20".
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  4. kpatricn

    kpatricn New Member

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    I was thinking of building the stock along these lines, it's kind of a crappy pic but you'll get the idea. It's going to be out of a laminated blank, with aluminum pillar blocks and glass bedded( what ever that means or does) I've noticed alot of target rifles have that done.

    Tactical_Black_Laminate_LHSide10inch72dpi_small-1.JPG
     
  5. gunnut07

    gunnut07 New Member

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    Sorry to say but, benchrest is way out of the league of an old mauser action now a days.

    A decent starter bench gun would be the Savage 12BR in 6br http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12BENCHREST

    You don't see many factory actions on the lines today unless they are in a factory class. If someone is using a factory remington action more than likely it is blue printed and sleaved.

    Most bench guns use short squat 6mm cartridges like teh 6ppc, 6mmBR, 6dasher stuff like that. You can use a long action like the Mauser but you are losing accuracy because of the long action and the flex.

    Benchrest is a whole different monster. I know of a small but growing benchrest comp called Ultimate Benchrest or UBR. This uses targets based on the diameter of your bullet.

    If you are real serious about getting into benchrest head over to benchrest central and take a gander at the used rifles.

    If you don't want to spend $2k+ just for a rifle. Better stick to the factory class and start with the savage above or Remington 700. You might not think so but there is a lot of time money and effort that goes into benchrest shooting. Many buy custom made bullets along with custom guns. Rests that weigh 30#+ and bags.
     
  6. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    first of all, you have a really nice sporterized Mauser. leave it alone. more than likely you will end ruining it's value trying to modify it. buy another rifle and start from scratch is my suggestion.

    hunting rifles can be used for target shooting and target rifles can be used for hunting. but IMO, they should used for their intended purposes as it works out better that way in the long run.

    the Mosin is a decent rifle, but will more than likely never be able to achieve the accuracy of most modern bolt action rifles can achieve. you would spend more time and money with little improvement over how it shoots now. and in the end, you could have bought a new rifle with much better accuracy at less money spent.
     
  7. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    Gunnut has some good suggestions and ideas. i think you need to get a clearer understanding of what it takes to build an accurate rifle. without knowledge of what is involved or how to do it yourself or to tell a gunsmith what you need done, you are in way over your head and will end up spending boatloads of money to only be very disappointed in your efforts in trying to get an accurate rifle.
     
  8. kpatricn

    kpatricn New Member

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    Understood and well noted,I already have around 800 in the Mosin between the stock bolt and new parts, but it's not like I'm going to sell it, that's what I wanted so did it. I don't care about what I spend it just may take a bit to get it. (Plus I better get my wife a pistol before I spend anymore on guns or I may come up missing).As far as putting time into something, that's how we learn,I can't be disappointed if I tried,I'll learn and keep moving forward. Any good books out there on building rifles from ground up.
     
  9. jpattersonnh

    jpattersonnh Active Member

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    Bench rest with an old Mauser, Hmmm. First off, do you hand load??
    Second, you need a caliber that is capable to compeat. If I were to do what you are planning, a 6.5x06 would be a starting point. You would need to get the action blue printed.
    http://www.vandykerifles.com/blueprint.htm

    That is where you start. You should contact these guys and ask if your action is useable. I suggest 6.5x06 because it matches the bolt face as it sits now.
     
  10. Txhillbilly

    Txhillbilly Active Member

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    I agree with J.P.. But,you will need to know how to hand load ammo for the 6.5-06 because there is none in factory ammo-it's a wildcat caliber,but a very good long range caliber. Brass is easily made by necking up 25/06 brass or down sizing the necks on 30/06 brass.
    But,it would be cheaper for you to buy a completely new factory rifle that is pretty much ready to go out of the box like a Savage 12 series. The 260 Remington,6.5 Creedmoor or 308 would work just fine for you starting out.
     
  11. gunnut07

    gunnut07 New Member

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    Bench rest rifles will need a stock with a forearm and butt that are parallel and FLAT. This helps with recoil and getting back on target. Benchrest shooting is not a shoot one adjust take aim and squeeze over 10 or 20 seconds. You want a rifle that tracks in the bags/ rest straight back that way you just push the rifle forward to the stop and fire again.

    Here is a good video showing how fast everything goes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktjIxtuRrtw

    There are even different ways to shoot. Free recoil is on where the only body parts of you that is touching the gun is your cheek and hand.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTHjjCcr_44

    Plus take a look at all the crap these guys put down range. Many will have a wind flag every 3 to 5 feet or yards.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTHjjCcr_44

    Please don't take this as me trying to discourage you from getting into benchrest shooting. I just don't want to see someone dump thousands of dollars into a set up to go out and get beat down and discouraged.

    Check out youtube tons of benchrest shooting videos.

    Guys shooting NBRSA and IBS are spending $3 to 5k on the rifle, $2k+ on optics. Then they spend $4k on all the other stuff needed to be competitive and that is not counting the hours upon hours weighing, measuring, and preparing brass and ammo for one weekend of shooting.

    This is not even scratching the surface either. Because in the open division you get to see rail guns that are sci-fi looking contraptions with no stock and lots and lots of aluminum and or stainless and hundreds of hours in machine work. I someday will build me one of them.
     
  12. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    I would get a rulebook and attend a few matches before buying a rifle for competition. Most people start with NRA smallbore. Competitive shooting is an expensive hobby if you do it right. It gets super expensive if you blunder along building rifles before you have even seen a rule book.
     
  13. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    not worrying about the amount spent is different in spending unwisely and having to start all over.

    i still suggest starting from scratch in building a dedicated target rifle. buying an action and a barrel and having one built. or get a Savage action and barrel and learning how to build one yourself. theat's the beauty of the Savages, they can be built by someone with some mechanical abilities and a few tools, vs. building other types where reamers or a lathe are needed to build them, plus a lot of experiance and knowledge of gunsmithing.

    check Brownell's and MidwayUSA. both carry an extensive line-up of good books on firearms and shooting.
     
  14. kpatricn

    kpatricn New Member

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    Thank you to everyone for your input and knowledge, Like I said I'm gun illiterate, but I can hit what I aim at, most of the time. So why is a 308 better than a 30-06? Because going by a ballistic data sheet for a 150 gr. bullet a
    30-06 muzzle vel.2,910 muz.energy 2,820
    Bullet drop @ 250 yrds. 7.7"
    308 muzzle vel.2,820 muz.energy 2,649
    Bullet drop @ 250 yrds. 8.4"
    7.62x54R round vel.2,800 energy 3,029
    Bullet drop@ 250 yrds. 7.6"
    And a 338 Lapua better in all aspects than those.
     
  15. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    look at the comparisons between the two. they are pretty dang close in balistics. now where the 30-06 has the advantage is because of case capacity, it can hold more powder and can use heavier bullets, (about 180 grs. and up) much better than the 308 with less drop.

    for a target rifle, the 308 is a short action and the 30-06 is a long action. the shorter actioned 308 will have less flex, so theoretically will be a more accurate action..

    yes the 338 L.M. has much better ballistics than either the 308 or the 30-06, but at a cost of a lot more velocity and energy, launching much larger bullets, which translates into much more recoil. that 338 L.M. is about twice the amount of felt recoil of the 30-06.

    your looking to punch holes in paper. you want something that you can shoot for extended rounds. yes some of the magnums can do much better, but at a priceof huge amounts of recoil. getting good at shooting means lots of trigger time sending rounds downrange. those larger magnums are for shooters who have been shooting for years, and even they get worn down from shooting them.
     
  16. kpatricn

    kpatricn New Member

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    Duelly noted on money wasted or spent wisely. One of my character flaws, I get an idea and take off running before the blindfold comes off or I even know where the hell I'm going. Thanks for grounding me everyone. I think I'll downsize my ideas build a solid foundation and build up from there.
     
  17. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    sounds like you are a hands on kind of person. i would PM TXhillbilly about him guiding you through building a rifle from srcatch using a Savage action in 260 Rem. or maybe a 6.5 Creedmore. i have seen a couple of his rifles in person and have met him personally this last summer. the man is a wealth of knowledge on shooting, building Savages and reloading.

    i started this thread a while back and TXhillbilly adds a lot of valuable information in this thread. if you get time, you might want to read through it.

    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/bolt-action-rifles-92316/
     
  18. greydog

    greydog Member

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    Rifles intended for target shooting have to be built with the type of shooting in mind. Short Range (100-200-300yd) rifles are probably the most specialized rifles in the world of rifles. Short range BR rifles are relatively short, stiff, and rigid units. at least 95% of them are chambered for the 6PPC. Other cartridges which can compete successfully are the 222, 223, 6BR and 30 BR.
    Long range BR rifles are longer, heavier (16 pounds is the light rifle class!) and chamberings reflect the need to push bullets with higher ballistic co-efficients to decent velocities. Cartridges which are favored include the 6BR, the various 6.5's, the 284 and some other sevens, 30 calibers from 308 up to 300 Mag. Short range shooters use scopes of 35 to 45 power while long range shooters often go with variable scopes. GD