talk calibers with me

Discussion in 'General Rifle Discussion' started by derek33, Jan 17, 2008.

  1. derek33

    derek33 New Member

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    Good evening.

    My name is derek, Im 20 years old and im new to firearms. a couple years ago my dad took me to our local range to shoot his fathers old M1 carbine and i was hooked. This past summer i bought (my money, fathers legal ownership) a ruger p345 and i love going to the range as often as possible. Im counting the days untill im 21 so i can get my license.

    anyway.

    I've been watching random youtube videos regarding firearms and rifles, and i just had a question about their bullets. I see that m4's and m16's and such use a bullet called the 5.56mm and the new barrett rifle uses a 6.8mm. whatever his name is on the show "future weapons" talks about how powerful this 6.8mm round is.

    where im confused, is you can get a bigger round in a pistol (9mm) not even to mention a .45. how are these "tiny" rifle rounds so much more powerful then a .45 in a pistol?

    also, i recently shot a beretta cx4 which i noticed used a standard pistol .45 round which to me was odd. why a pistol round out of a "rifle"? i did like the gun, it was fun and easy to shoot, accurate as well. how does a cx4 stand up to an AR platform firearm?

    Thanks,

    Derek
     
  2. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Velocity. Pistols are usually in the 800-1200 fps range with the .357 mag reaching near 1500. Rifles are 2-3 times faster. When you get supersonic or even Mach 3 the effects on fluids (bodies, flesh) become exponentially more catastrophic. A .308 150 gr bullet at near 3000 fps is FAR more devastating than a .357 158 gr bullet at 1500 fps.
     

  3. jeepejeep

    jeepejeep New Member

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    Rifle bullets are usually smaller diameter but the cartridge is a lot longer therefore a lot more powder can fit in them. Of course this makes the high velocities that Robo was talking about. Just check out any of the ammo makers web sites and you'll see what I mean.

    Shooting pistol cartridges through rifles goes way back to the old west when it was good to have a side arm and rifle using the same ammo. It's a lot of fun shooting these rifles as the recoil is usually mild and they are accurate.

    I've never shot a CX4 but have the AR. The AR uses a .223 bullet but again it's a true rifle cartridge and so packs more powder. It's more affective at long range and there's quite a debate because of it's small diameter but it's a pretty good killer. Not nearly as good as the .308 was but that's another debate for another thread! :D
     
  4. Duck

    Duck New Member

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    Do a Google image search of a 6.8mm round and a 9mm round. That should answer your question.
     
  5. derek33

    derek33 New Member

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    I see what you guys mean. thanks for the replies.

    does that mean a .45 cx4 and my .45 p345 have the same have the same performance regarding distance and accuracy (minus the fact of the buttstock and sights of the carbine).
     
  6. jeepejeep

    jeepejeep New Member

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    The carbine will have more range due to the longer barrel. It gives the bullet a little more velocity. This is true when comparing rifles to pistols or rifles and carbines up to a point. I've seen tests where a long barrel was cut off in inch increments. A very long barrel will actually slow a bullet due to friction. For every cartridge there's an ideal barrel length as far as velocity goes that will give max. velocity. Longer and the bullet slows due to friction, shorter and the powder hasn't burned completely before the bullet leaves the barrel so velocity drops. This is usually slight but it's there. Ballistics are fascinating!
     
  7. robocop10mm

    robocop10mm Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Accuracy is also a product of sight alignment. A longer sight radius (more distance between the front and rear sights) allows for more precise sight alignment and better accuracy. Ammo can be tailored to different barrel lengths. Slower burning powder for longer barrels, faster for shorter barrels.
     
  8. Catfish

    Catfish New Member

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    Derek,
    As you learn in school, konetic energy is mass or weight times velosity. I have several rifle that range from .17 cal. on the small end to .411 on the big end and handguns from .22 rimfire to the .500 S&W. If you were here it would take me long to show you the difference. Your not from Oh are you????
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2008
  9. derek33

    derek33 New Member

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    I live in MA.

    I dont really have any friends or family into firearms. everyone in my family hates guns and hates the fact im studying to become a cop in the future (really want to join a swat team). after i showed my father i was really focused on becomeing a cop he let me shoot his fathers old m1. the only reason my dad has licenses for his dads firearms is to legally bring them to and from shops for appraising and selling.

    ive always been interested in firearms, but the actual owning and shooting is new to me (besides paintballing).

    Id love to find a training camp around my area to learn shooting tips and maybe even some tactical trainging.
     
  10. Duck

    Duck New Member

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    That is your best bet. You are really only going to learn about guns by getting some sort of real-life instruction and by using them. I could tell you how to build a fishing rod all day, but it's not going to make you a master rod builder.
     
  11. deadin

    deadin New Member

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    Some of the reasons for pistol rounds in a carbine or SMG is that the gun can be lighter, simpler to make, less recoil, easier to shoot (doesn't require as much training to be effective at combat ranges) and both it and the user can carry a lot more ammo for the same given amount of weight.
    What you give up is accuracy at longer ranges and knock-down power.
     
  12. fornra

    fornra New Member

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    Pistol caliber carbines are better for clearing buildings and such where a rifle round would most likely penetrate walls and endanger innocents. They also are plenty accurate for most defensive situations ( under 50 yds ). I doubt that a 5.56 rifle round would be any more effective than a .45 ACP hollow point at house clearing distance, I like the big hole theory.
     
  13. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    If you are wanting some training. Then go to nra.org and see if there is a NRA certified instructors in your area then go and talk to one or more of them and get some instruction.
     
  14. SimonTuffGuy

    SimonTuffGuy New Member

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    We have a local gun club here in PA that offers firearm classes throughout the year. The guys that teach are NRA certified to train the classes and they range from basic handgun, home protection, outside protection, etc.

    As said above - see where the instructors are in your area, or find a local gun club, and sign up!
     
  15. Samhain

    Samhain New Member

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    Derek,
    Where abouts in Mass? I live in CT and belong to a gun club that offers all kinds of classes. There are located about 20mins from Springfield Ma.