"Tacticool" Will Never Replace Common Sense

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by billt, Mar 5, 2012.

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  1. billt

    billt New Member

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    The squib doesn't have the energy to fully cycle the bolt. He feels the squib load, but instead of checking the bore...... He then manually cycles the bolt & chambers a fresh round. "Tap, rack, bang". Just like you see a large number of tactical "trainers" teach in all the tacti-cool videos on the internet.

    And voilà

    BOOM

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoZnCxqa4QA&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
     
  2. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    Ouch, was he seriously hurt?
     

  3. silverado113

    silverado113 New Member

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    Tap, rack, bang gets you an alibi on the rifle range with someone else's rifle. My personal rifle if it fails to fire gets inspected, after all nobody is shooting at me on the range and I have to pay for a new rifle.
     
  4. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    That's unfortunate.

    Are you saying that practical training is not necessary or somehow a waste of time? How do you feel people should shoot?

    How is this guy tactical? The M4 tattoo on his left forearm? I think you are making assumptions based on emotion and not common sense. Even before the video started this guy was giving off d-bag vibes. The tattoo sealed the deal.

    I imagine you saw the video and lit up, "I'm going to go post this," "I'll show those retards how stupid they are."

    I dislike those tacticool guys as much as the next man but lumping them together with guys that are seriously about their proficiency behind a weapon is wrong. It makes people shy away from practical shooting and their butt stays planted at the bench which is doing no favors for anyone.

    I'm not a prepper or militant type person but in the case of self-defense practical shooting is where it's at. Bench time will get you nowhere when it really counts.
     
  5. billt

    billt New Member

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    Click on, "The Man Firing My Rifle" from 0:01 to 0:04 in the video.
     
  6. billt

    billt New Member

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    Safely....
     
  7. Blaine

    Blaine New Member

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    ouch, that is a bummer
     
  8. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    After following the additional link provided in the video I take back some of what I said about the guy. I still think the tattoo is something he will regret as he gets older but he seems to be putting effort into learning to manipulate his firearm. Much more than can be said about 99% of those who claim AR superiority or advanced knowledge. More people need to hit the range in this capacity.

    What did he do that was unsafe? What are these trainers teaching that is unsafe? Not trying to bust anyones balls, just trying to figure out what he did wrong. It must be serious to warrant it's own thread.
     
  9. jjfuller1

    jjfuller1 New Member

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    im at work and cant hear if you can tell the sound of the last round fired. but the tap rack bang is not just a mall ninja thing. the US military teaches this exact action in bootcamp... look to see if its jammed, then tap, rack, bang. upon another malfunction more action is required.. so i see nothing wrong. but thats with me going on the basis of not hearing a difference in shots. seems to be just an unlucky guy
     
  10. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    With the noise of the firing line I can't tell if shooter could hear a "pop" as the primer only charge sent the bullet lodging into the barrel. It seem to occur on the 7th round and there is obviously "no kick".

    Infantry training made me aware of the potential danger of a squib round or "pop no kick" as my DS called it but I've never experienced one. That other part of infantry training is remediate action otherwise known as SPORTS.
    SLAP the bottom of the mag
    PULL the charging handle to the rear
    OBSERVE the chamber for a folded shell or casing
    RELEASE the charging handle
    TAP the forward assist
    SHOOT

    The only error I see from the shooter was failing to notice the bad round was "no longer live" upon ejection and following the squib with no recoil.

    Honestly, doubt I'd have noticed that either given the rate at which he was firing.

    I call this one bad luck while doing it just as I was trained to do it.

    Tack
     
  11. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    billt, you're a long time member and I respect your knowledge and experience but on this one, I'll disagree.

    Is the purpose of the training to improve the student's skill in competition shooting or fight shooting?

    I can only address fight training because it's the only type I take. If your comment is on competition shooting (paper bogies) disregard my following thoughts.

    First I agree with you, and teach, common sense (if that is possible) along with safety to all students prior to technique. If fight shooting (or personal defense) is the subject, then getting back into the fight after a miss-fire is paramount to survival. Its the same reason why the military teaches TAP, RACK, BANG.

    I know the You Tube video isn't the best but I didn't detect a "squib sound" but rather a simple miss-fire. The shooter did what I would have done, but with much less grace and far more time. Had the sound been squib like, I would have taken an entirely different tack to resolve.

    I'm sure you have read this thread, Combat Accuracy but I post it for the new members interested in fight training.

    They may see why I'm adding comments to your thread.

    cane
     
  12. Snakedriver

    Snakedriver New Member

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    Cane, I'm glad to see you say you didn't hear a squib because I didn't hear one either. I watched it several times and didn't hear a pop vs. bang prior to the kaboom. I'm not so sure I would have done anything different than the shooter did based on what I saw and heard. I also didn't see anything unsafe about the users techniques or procedures.
     
  13. billt

    billt New Member

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    You're not going to accomplish that with a blown up rifle and a face full of shrapnel. Common sense dictates, regardless of the situation, You ALWAYS inspect the bore of your rifle for an obstruction after a misfire. Any 12 year old who has completed an NRA Hunters Safety Course knows this. Had this guy, he wouldn't have been forced to shop for a new rifle. As it is he's lucky he has both eyeballs.

    "Tap, Rack, bang", or what ever, is an invitation to a disaster, and is stupid on a range, and dangerous in any other situation. It's a gamble where the reward is simply not worth the risk.
     
  14. scott_gen

    scott_gen New Member

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    Forgive my ignorance but could someone bring me up to speed with what "tap, rack bang" means?
     
  15. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Not to flog this expired-equine further but, a Hunter Safety Course would have no reason to teach the student to be in a hurry and get the hunter "back into the fight" with a deer.

    I did qualify my comments, and meant no offense.
     
  16. jamesb

    jamesb New Member

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    I'm not seeing the misfire. I see 6 rounds all with the same sound (all with felt recoil), then what looks like a dead trigger. No noise or anything indicationg the 7th round was a squib. From what I see I would think he thought it was an empty chamber or that it didnt' chamber a round. The empty case ejecting would tell differently. Am I missing something?
     
  17. MrWray

    MrWray New Member

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    This would have happened to most people, hell it may have happened to me. I too know what a squib load sounds like "very well in fact",and i didnt hear the distinguishing sound of a squib. To me it sound like a mis-fire, and i would have also ejected that round to load a fresh one. Now 50/50, I may have noticed that the ejecting round was "spent" and thought OH $H!T and investigated or i may not have noticed given the situation. Its just an unfortunate situation
     
  18. Tackleberry1

    Tackleberry1 New Member

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    I curiously find myself on both sides of this disagreement. Per my earlier post, I find no fault with the shooter and admit that due to my training regarding immediate action, I would probably have experienced the same thing.:eek:

    Seeing an AR go Kaboom, I'm now thinking I'll save the TAP, RACK, SHOOT for when the SHTF.

    No need to ruin an expensive toy or my pretty face to outgun the popcans or paper threats I'm facing these days.:p

    Tack
     
  19. Snakedriver

    Snakedriver New Member

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    Very good point !
     
  20. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Hmm , I guess Im a little bit lost on this one ,6th shot I see it kick and I see flame come out of the end of the barrel .Rnd 7 I never even heard the primer pop and it was manually ejected and racked with another round , Was the chamber not closed all the way on his last shot causing the failure ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
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