Tactical Wal-Martian

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by Rick1967, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    I was at Walmart last night looking for a PS4 for my son. No luck by the way. But as I walked down the isle I see him. At first I saw him from behind. I could clearly see he was wearing a shoulder holster. He had a full sized 1911 holstered vertically under one arm. I could also see 2 spare mags on his weak side of the rig. He was not even wearing a jacket or anything. He also had that "mall-ninja" attitude. You could see it in his stance and his body language. The clerk that was helping him was obviously uncomfortable. But they tried to stay professional about it. I stood about 3 feet behind him for a good minute before he noticed me. Then he just turned and looked my way. That is when I saw that he had a second gun in his waistband.

    I immediately thought to myself, "I am glad he is here. If someone were to start shooting people I will have time to get to cover and draw my weapon because they will definitely shoot him first."
     
  2. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    That's pretty judgmental. A LOT of people carry two guns, and even more open carry. Does that make them all mall ninjas? I need more than that to go on before I call him a mall ninja.

    As for the "they will definitely shoot him first" thing, that has NEVER been proven. The myth that open carrying makes you a target is just that. A myth. We've had several different threads about it and they have all came to the same conclusion. That the chances of an open carrier being targeted first are extraordinarily low.
     

  3. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    if someone wants to make a spectacle of themselves... go for it. my preference is to not be noticed and left alone. whether that attention is people gawking at my firearm or the way i dress or carry on.

    nothing wrong with oc i like oc i like not having to worry if some sheeple gets a peek at my gun when i carry owb under a shirt or jacket.

    thing is while it hasnt happened yet that anyone has noticed someone that is ocing provides a distraction and intimidation factor that will allow myself to remain unremarked by any mischief maker. my thinking is why should i be the attention getter when its better to remain quiet until action is needed??

    my military training emphasized its better to attack from concealment that to be the one walking boldly into an ambush regardless of how well armed you are.
     
  4. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    If it took him a minute to notice someone looking at him, then he must not be trained on situation awareness.
     
  5. WillWork4Ammo

    WillWork4Ammo New Member

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    Maybe he was a federal agent?Plain clothes detective?
     
  6. Doc3402

    Doc3402 New Member

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    Your statement that this is a myth is just as unprovable as the assertion that open carry deters crime. Here is my view on that. From a tactical standpoint, if you are the only person seen to be armed, you are a potential target. If you are one of three people carrying openly you are probably a deterrent.
     
  7. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

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    Yep.
    If I was robbing the place, I would have taken this guy out first. Just saying....
     
  8. Doc3402

    Doc3402 New Member

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    That's my thought, too. You don't leave known armed resistance standing around to get in your way.
     
  9. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    Find me real world examples of this happening, and the argument that open carrying causes one to become a potential target will have some credibility to it. As it is now, it has zero credibility since there is zero proof. A thread was started a while back asking for exactly that. VERY VERY little evidence to support that argument was found.
     
  10. Doc3402

    Doc3402 New Member

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    All I have to fall back on is my military and LE training. You don't leave armed resistance standing unless they have the overwhelming force. You wait for the tactical advantage and you take them out.

    But evidence was found. That's good enough for me.

    I remember that thread. I remember the OP tried to guide the thread to support his argument by eliminating LE, security, and military incidents. I also remember that truth was the last thing that was welcome in that thread. Those of us that did find evidence had it shot down, not because it didn't happen, but because it didn't fit the OP's narrow thread guidelines. Many of us gave up in disgust.
     
  11. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

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    Sure, no problem...
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx_YUO4SzcY&feature=related[/ame]
     
  12. Doc3402

    Doc3402 New Member

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    Ooops. And he helped them get the gun out of the holster, too? Amazing what you'll do when somebody has a gun pointed at you.
     
  13. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    Just one? I could find a single story where a legally owned gun was used to kill an innocent person. Does that mean we should ban guns? Seriously, you'll ave to do better than just one story.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/r...cle_1208ebdd-9ed5-54e1-bfd4-24a0c83a2852.html

    -------------------------------------------------------

     
  14. Doc3402

    Doc3402 New Member

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  15. texaswoodworker

    texaswoodworker New Member

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    You posted one video. That's nowhere near enough to support an argument. The same could be done for concealed carry. That 76 YO woman who was killed was carrying concealed. Does that mean that concealed carry more likely to get you killed?

    I quoted statistics that supported my argument. Do you have any to support yours?

    Yep, I am consistent. I believe the argument that open carry makes ou a target is complete BS, and that there is no actual evidence to prove this. I also believe every American has the right to carry how they want, where they want, and what they want.

    The fact are not on your side.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  16. clr8ter

    clr8ter New Member

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    I think the guy in the OP's story was being ridiculous. Seriously, a 1911, 2 mags, and a waistband gun all OC? In Walmart? (Was the waistband gun in a holster?) Is that really necessary?
     
  17. deadsp0t

    deadsp0t New Member

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    image-1066957123.jpg



    image-799941614.jpg

    Yup.... ........
     
  18. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

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    Found thus on another forum....usacarry.com

    Man robbed in the Centreville area

    About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured.

    The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing.

    Anyone with information about this incident or these suspects is asked to call Crime Solvers at 1-866-411-TIPS (8477) or the police non-emergency number at 703-691-2131.



    I'm just posting the story. Situational awareness is always important. Checking your six should always be done.

    Open carrying takes away the surprise and criminals choose to use more force usually. He's lucky they didn't go further with him as they weren't caught anyways.

    I'm not making this an anti-open carry post. Just posting an article.

    Story Link
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  19. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

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    From times dispatch....number three

    The 16-year-old accused of killing two people in less than seven hours last week in Richmond has several felony convictions, including one for a violent crime.


    Toby Smith Jr. is accused of stealing Blaine Tyler's gun inside a gas station last week and fatally shooting him after Tyler chased Smith inside the store.

    The Richmond teenager also is accused of fatally shooting Pierre Walter "Pete" Cosby hours later in an attempted robbery in the Oak Grove neighborhood in South Richmond.

    Smith, who was arrested Monday and charged in last week's two killings, was convicted in 2010 of malicious wounding, grand larceny and burglary, according to court papers filed in Richmond Juvenile and Domestic Relations District Court.

    Tyee Marquel Hamiel, another 16-year-old Richmonder, also faces charges in Tyler's killing but not in Cosby's. Hamiel's criminal history includes convictions in 2007 of grand larceny and malicious wounding, according to court records.

    Smith and Hamiel also were convicted of attempted grand larceny on the same day in August of this year, the records show.

    "This isn't the first time that they've been in trouble together," said Richmond Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney Andy Johnson.

    Johnson declined to discuss the specifics of the suspects' prior cases because they involve juvenile records, including what sentences they received.

    The court records were filed this week as part of the discovery process for the current cases against Smith and Hamiel. The documents do not list sentencing information or details about the crimes.

    Judge Marilynn C. Goss of Richmond Juvenile and Domestic Relations District Court denied a motion by a Richmond Times-Dispatch reporter to view portions of the case files for the previous convictions. She ruled that the prior hearings were closed and that the information on the cases, including any sentences handed down, would remain confidential.

    Johnson, speaking generally about juvenile cases, said it is rare in Richmond for a juvenile to be sent to detention after his or her case is adjudicated.

    "Our goal is to try to get through to these kids before they become adults so we don't automatically lock them up every time they do something wrong," he said.

    However, in the cases now pending against Smith and Hamiel, prosecutors will try to have the teens tried as adults and, if the suspects are convicted of murder charges, they could face up to life in adult prison.

    Smith's attorney, Robert D. Shrader Jr., and Hamiel's attorney, John G. Lafratta, declined to discuss the cases against their clients.

    No one answered the door Friday at the home of Smith's mother in the 300 block of East 11th Street in the Blackwell neighborhood in South Richmond. Court papers list that address as the home of Smith but also give another address for him.

    A woman who answered the door Friday at Hamiel's mother's home at the Midlothian Village Apartments in South Richmond said she would have no comment. No one came to the door at the home Hamiel shared with a sister in the 2400 block of Atwell Lane near Jefferson Davis Highway and Bellemeade Road.

    Authorities say last week's homicides both involved a robbery or attempted robberies, but it was unclear why or how each victim was selected. Also unknown is whether either suspect knew either victim.

    Tyler, a customer at the BP station, was killed about 8:15 p.m. Friday, Nov. 25, inside the store. According to court papers, Smith and Hamiel arrived at the BP together on a single scooter and followed Tyler into the store.

    Tyler, 48, had a concealed-carry permit, but his handgun was plainly visible that night in his holster, Johnson said.

    "The suspects walk in and one immediately reached for Mr. Tyler's gun," Johnson said. Tyler did not draw his weapon.

    According to court papers, Smith took Tyler's gun during a struggle and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith inside the store. Authorities said they could not confirm that Tyler was killed with his own gun until they get the results of forensics testing. They also are awaiting test results to show whether the gun used to kill Tyler was the one used to shoot Cosby.

    Cosby, 32, was sitting with a woman in a car in the 1700 block of Edwards Avenue about 2:30 a.m. last Saturday, when Smith walked up and tried to rob them, according to court documents. The woman hurried out of the car and heard gunshots as she ran. Police found Cosby dead in the vehicle.

    Smith faces 17 charges, including two counts of murder in the deaths of Tyler and Cosby, along with robbery of Tyler and two counts of attempted robbery in the Edwards Avenue slaying. Hamiel faces eight charges, including murder and robbery of Tyler.

    Preliminary hearings for both teens are set for Jan. 30.

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    The BP station at 1 Westover Hills Blvd.
     
  20. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister New Member

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    I honestly do not care if someone open carries. That is their right. I highly suggest training in situational awareness and gun retention. Would you put someone behind the wheel of a car without training? I do see the relevance in this question.

    Therefore, I put out the question of training......is it important? Does it save lives? What training is necessary?
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013