tactical training question

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by Dahamp2003, Mar 4, 2014.

  1. Dahamp2003

    Dahamp2003 New Member

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    Training question: when you're running a course, do you consider it safe to sling your AR on safe to draw your secondary? Even if it still has rounds in it?
     
  2. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Safe, no. Possibly in some strange sense battlefield expedient, yes. Two different things.

    The reason you transition to a secondary is when you have gone dry on the primary or a malfunction and pulling a handgun is faster than reloading on close quarters targets.

    You would be stupid to drop a working rifle with ammo to go with a handgun...

    In other words don't take a handgun to a rifle fight. If you want to practice transitions load only a couple rounds or stick a snap cap in the magazine somwhere to simulate a malfunction or shooting dry then transition. That's far more realistic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014

  3. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    Yes, if the training course specifically allows it, and the participant is qualified.
     
  4. Dahamp2003

    Dahamp2003 New Member

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    I think it is safe. I understand the reasoning behind doing it, I just don't think it's that big of a deal. I mean if people appendix carry glocks with nothing but a trigger safety and 1 in the chamber then I really don't understand why my buddy is getting his panties in a wad. Let's be honest. Even if something bad happens on a 1 point sling the barrel is below the upper leg. There's no significant artery in the lower extremity outside of the thigh. To me, it's way more dangerous to carry a glock with only a trigger safety and one in the chamber pointed at your junk/thigh. Your thigh does have a serious artery if something bad happened.
     
  5. FrontierTCB

    FrontierTCB Active Member

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    Yea, no big deal. Shooting yourself or someone else is perfectly acceptable. Just don't hit an artery!

    Huh????

    Seriously, JonM had the correct answer for you.


    Sent from my iPhone using Firearms Talk
     
  6. Dahamp2003

    Dahamp2003 New Member

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    I didn't say it was acceptable. Goodness. I'm weighing the relative risk of a certain action. The same thing we do everyday. Relax. Do you at least understand my point in regards to the glock appendix carry?
    l
     
  7. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Well the glock has nothing to do with your original question.

    But i will address it anyway.

    A handgun in a holster is under your control. A rifle swinging around on a sling on your body free to rub the safety off and free to have foreign objects insert themselves into the trigger guard hile your running around is not under your control and not safe.

    I cant think of a single legitimate tactical reason to drop a working rifle with ammo still in it for a handgun. So in essence the question is moot to begin with. You would never do such a thing in a real.fight for your life why train to do it??
     
  8. Dahamp2003

    Dahamp2003 New Member

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    Thanks for your input. You're assuming a lot though. I never said the Glock was in a holster with a trigger guard. I've literally seen people carry them with the EZ holster or whatever it is, with the barrel insert as the only means of keeping it in there. I do understand why you would say there's not a valid reason for doing it, and I agree. That wasn't my question though. I also never said running. If I get to a station on a course, safety my primary, sling it, draw, shoot, and holster my secondary, then go back to my primary before I move at all, do you think that is safe? That was the situation, whether it was tactically necessary or not, that a buddy reamed me out over. The same buddy that points his glock at his penis with no trigger guard and only a piece of plastic in the barrel. I understand that may not have been the best thing to do in that situation. But I don't like when someone's preaching safety to me when they're muzzle swiping me all day at the range. I came here to get opinions. I just found that extremely hypocritical. Like I said, I realize (in hindsight, it's a little different when your HR is about 160) that I didn't do the drill the right way. I was irritated when he flipped out like I pointed it to his head. Anyways, thanks for the input. I guess I asked a broad question to a more complex situation.
     
  9. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    Putting a loaded firearm into or on or hanging from anything that isn't a holster is not safe.

    A rifle that's loaded and is dangling free out of your control or a handgun stuffed in a waist band no holster are both conditions that end up at some point perforating something or someone that shouldn't have holes punched through.

    I'm not going to just your balls. You are evidently old enough to purchase firearms. All I'm putting out is best practice. Train like you fight. You wouldn't drop a loaded firearm in combat why do it in training. Same is true for a handgun. If your stuffing a glock or any other pistol in your pants your going to shoot your junk at some point.

    If your dropping a loaded rifle on a sling it's the same thing as stuffing a loaded glock in your waist band. You can do what you will but your the one that's going to pay the price when someone starts leaking.
     
  10. oO_Rogue_Oo

    oO_Rogue_Oo New Member

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    You didn't say but it seems to me that a lot of the responses assume a single point sling. Might want to look into a 3 point sling like the Specter. Tends to keep the weapon tighter to the body and more controlled. Just my 2 cents
     
  11. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

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    I do not like to rely on mechanical safeties alone when the firearm is banging around my body.

    That is why on the course, they should have something to put your rifle on when transitioning to pistol.

    And the same goes when you are going from pistol to rifle. You should be able to pick up the rifle from a pre-positioned table or such as you run the course.

    (And like others say, the handgun should be first, then the rifle. Near to far.)
     
  12. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you are being 'trained' to use tactics in 'battle' you MUST use the same tactics you would use in battle. If, while in firefight, you would put your long gun on 'safe' when you 'sling' it and transition your handgun do so. If in battle you would not put your long gun on safe before slinging it and transitioning to your handgun don' put it on safe.
    YOU DO AS YOUR TRAIN!!!! ;)
     
  13. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    This is not a safety issue. For so many years I have set the safety on a shotgun when I put it down, empty or not, that I set the safety in competition. Setting the safety doesn't take any longer than if I just set the gun down. Setting the safety is what I have been trained to do. I am not so good with my AR.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
  14. Mercator

    Mercator Active Member

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    Real training drills have rules that specifically cover all that. Self training is a different matter, you set your own rules or none at all. Arguing over personal choices is unproductive. A self defense firefight with an AR and a handgun is a fantasy. Any serious battle training is not and should not be self administered.
     
  15. JimRau

    JimRau Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If I am the 'trainer' I must live what I teach. I am the trainer!!!!;)
    And as I said, 'you will do as you train'.
    BUT you must only train in the basics, because you MUST be able to adapt to a very dynamic situation quickly if you wish to survive and hopefully prevail!:eek:
     
  16. DeltaF

    DeltaF New Member

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    If you are self training on dropping your rifle and drawing your pistol in case of a malfunction, I'd recommend mixing a snap cap in with your live rounds and having a buddy load it in your mag for you or purposefully not paying attention to where it is in the mag and how many shots are before it. It's a lot safer and a lot more realistic than having a slung weapon bouncing around with 1 in the pipe.


    Sent from my iPhone using Firearms Talk
     
  17. jarrodsquito

    jarrodsquito New Member

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    The snap cap is a great idea from a defensive stand point...similar to malfunction drills and training to respond to the stimulus rather than training a routine...in a defensive situation you will never be expecting the malfunction...learning and training to respond to it is much more beneficial


    Sent from my iPhone using Firearms Talk
     
  18. therukh

    therukh New Member

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    Transitions

    For me, I would never run a course where you would transition to your secondary while the rifle still has rounds in it. I trained my son that way and he, in turn, trained his company that way before they deployed to Iraq (his second deployment). They had never trained to transition to their secondary and he saw the need to have that training so he trained them as he had been trained, both stationary and on the move. The only reason to transition to your secondary is if your primary is down.
     
  19. jarrodsquito

    jarrodsquito New Member

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  20. Rentacop

    Rentacop New Member

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    This should be settled by now . The safest and most realistic way to train is to transition from an empty gun . There is no need to set the safety and doing so would start a habit that would slow you down in an emergency . You could also forget to switch the safety off once you got your long gun back into action .
    Practice as realistically and safely as possible .