Tactical Response Training

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by cpttango30, Jun 17, 2009.

  1. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    Man don't think I would ever use this school.

    MVI_1778.flv video by Tactical_Resp - Photobucket

    Here is the guys that produced that video.

    Tactical Response

    here is a guy that really doesn't like the owner of Tactical Resonse. Even if this stuff is only half true. This guy is a complete utter douche bag.

    James Yeager is Scum!


    Do you like all what goes on. Firing while man down range, turning a loaded weapon away from the firing line, people sweeping others. WOW class act right there.
     
  2. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    :mad:

    WTF is wrong with Yeager????


    WTF is wrong with those students that are willing to shoot when someone (that idiot for a camera man) is right in front of them????

    I made it an ancillary goal in my life to try and help those learn the correct way of handling a firearm in the defense of life. I see stuff like this, and it makes me want to drop a flying elbow into the nearest wall.......

    This little "training" outfit needs to be shut down with a quickness.
     

  3. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

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    LOL, well, that was not a wise or safe stunt, I would go as far to say it was very foolish, but trust me over the years of Tach shooting and various training, I have seen much worse. ;)
     
  4. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    If the story on that expose' website is true - that guy deserves to be sued penniless and then be killed by one of his "students" during a training "accident"

    What a POS!

    Put the vehicle in neutral, set the handbrake and got out of the damn vehicle on the most dangerous route, at the time, in Baghdad?!?! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Over!?

    Man alive - Those poor bastards in the vehicles behind his lead vehicle were trapped and riddle with bullets because one guy was too effing lazy to do the job correctly....:mad:

    JD
     
  5. Ubergopher

    Ubergopher New Member

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    It'd be nice if when the revolution comes, they get him to lead the government forces. Mainly so I'd have a chance to shoot at him, but also so it'd be easier for the rebels to win,
     
  6. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    I looked at this guy's website, and it's funny that the same (actually better) advice I will give out for free on this forum, he'll charge up the *** for.


    Basic Handgun is 100 dollars for one day (bring your own supplies)

    Fighting Handgun is 400 dollars for two days (bring your own supplies)

    I guess I can't fault him for trying to make a buck, but it seems unfair somehow to me that people have to pay to learn how to effectively use their firearms.
     
  7. Going Postal

    Going Postal New Member

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    I could not get the first link to work. If it is the video of the camera man down range, while firing goes on all around him, then I am glad it is off the web. It just makes all shooters/gun owners look like idiots.
     
  8. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    The links no longer seem to work. I was curious as to whether a cameraman or only a camera was downrange...

    I have Jim Yeager's " Fighting Pistol " DVD set and like it. He seems like a good and sincere instructor.

    I'm not completely comfortable with an anonymous Internet attack on him. Yeager put his name on his own writings.

    The Iraq disaster referred to apparently involved Yeager's forgetfulness under machinegun fire. He was driving a stick, put it in neutral and set the parking brake. When the machinegun chewed up the three cars, he hit the gas. When the car failed to move, he thought the transmission was hit ; he forgot it wasn't an automatic. He bailed out and tried to take cover and to return fire.
    Those are the facts as best we can get them. Calling him a coward for this seems extreme to me.
    Yeager defended his actions partly by knocking the actions of others. I don't know if he was fair or accurate. If you all want to do a Warren Commission style investigation, be my guests.
    I'm content to let it go and judge Yeager on the value of his training.
     
  9. cpttango30

    cpttango30 New Member

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    I will judge him on the video. I would not set foot on a range with this or any of his wannabe instructors. Sorry anyone that allows someone down range to hold targets and take pictures while a live fire exercise is going on is a muther effing douche bag and should have all his firearms and teeth KTFO and taken never to be returned. For the students to shoot and not throw a complete tantrum about this stunt is beyond me. I would just as soon shot any of them in the dam foot than shoot with them.
     
  10. hydrashok

    hydrashok New Member

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    That's really neither here nor there. There was an article in SWAT magazine (Dec. 2005) that reamed Gabe Suarez for standing next to a target while having one of his student's fire. He said something about standing downrange (granted, it was close range) is a reminder to him of what it's like to have bullets coming your direction.

    For "operators", there is a time and place for live fire shooting when not everyone is on a firing line. In a live fire shoot house with a specialized "team", there's a point where it's "ok" to shoot a target three feet from one of your team members.

    The problem I have with "down range training" is the tacticool commandos want to make it available to EVERYBODY, and that just ain't right. You don't take a class full of strangers and have them doing team shooting... that's for training elite teams... guys who have lived, worked, and trained together for a good long time. There's gotta be a special trust to be down range while your team mate is throwing lead your way.

    If you learn anything from it, then good for you. Personally, I'm not a fan of DVD firearms instruction. A lot of the big name high profile instructors get caught up in media and marketing. A DVD can't critique your performance, and you can't ask a DVD questions.

    My name is Jerry A. Goodson. My home address is:

    110 San Saba Ave
    Benbrook, TX 76126

    I don't have a home or cell number because I'm currently deployed... but if I did, I'd post that, too. I've never been afraid to say who I am, where I live, or how you can get a hold of me.


    Uhm... that's the WORST time to be "forgetful".


    That's where the 'incompetency' began. I don't do that INSIDE the wire, much less in a traffic jam in a populated city over here. I didn't do that in 2005 before I was exposed to Yeager, so it's not like I "learned from his mistakes"... I knew better without him having to make those mistakes.

    So he got paid a LOT of money... a BOAT LOAD of money and he 'forgot' he was driving a stick shift?? :eek:

    The problem I have with that is, he made all of that money over there to protect people who DIED, and he came home and started this company selling his wares as if he's the "cat's meow".

    Well... you added to the facts "as best as we can get them". He bailed out and took cover. I couldn't see in the video where he was returning any fire.

    Uhm, no. Yeager defended his actions SOLELY by knocking the actions of others.

    I can let a LOT of things go, however, I still caught up on that whole thing about people getting shot and DYING.

    As far as the "value of his training", I can't comment one way or the other... I've never seen his videos or attended any of his courses. You can defend THAT all you want. If his training *IS* "the cat's meow", then good for him and his students. Being a good instructor doesn't mean you can't be a liar or a coward... or both.
     
  11. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    Good points, Hydrashok. I lack your experience and am not as qualified as you are to judge Yeager's actions in Iraq.

    Yeager has posted a video on YouTube defending the practice of instructors/cameramen standing downrange : [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R3t0wuLDWQ&feature=related]YouTube - Firearms Training Safety[/ame] Many comments are posted to the video.

    I commend you on your willingness to put your name on your statements.

    I want you to know that I have read both Yeager's Iraq report and the contractor's findings long before this video issue surfaced, so I was not simply guessing about the facts.
     
  12. Ubergopher

    Ubergopher New Member

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    ...Wait...

    In that video he basically says

    "Making sure not to aim at a person down range will help you pull the trigger when you have to"...

    Yeeeeeeeeah...

    No way in hell I'll ever go there.
     
  13. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    Ubergopher-
    I agree with you guys on this range safety issue. I've seen too much unsafe gun handling to ever agree to stand beyond a firing line.
    I hope Yeager stops this practice.
     
  14. layton

    layton New Member

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    Just curious, when I went through basic in the 60's, on the range, there were people downrange marking targets for us, do they still do that? Does any one know what kind of protection they used downrange? I never went downrange, so I am curious. We would get to the range, then they would call out up targets, then ready on the firing line, then fire. Then they would give cease fire, then downrange they would pull the targets down and mark them, then raise and show the hits with a round black or white paddle. After basic and on the range we had electric pop ups at various distances.



    Layton
     
  15. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    Here's a link to the after action reports on Yeager's adventure in Iraq. If you study them, you'll see that some of the statements on the anti-Yeager site are not true...

    Scroll down to the 2 AARs.

    Anyone know who James Yeager is? - DFWstangs Forums

    Is Yeager right to critisize others ? Read this :

    From Time Magazine article :
    Then team leader Johnson climbed out of Ahmelman's car and began firing in the air to warn other vehicles to stay clear - an act which clearly identified the convoy as contractors. "They rang the dinner bell for the bad guys,'' says ERSM staffer Scott Traudt, who was in the company's Baghdad headquarters at the time.

    Working Vid Link : [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8alt5C-yc4[/ame]

    Here's a working link to the " instructor down range " Video : http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/17/highly-controversial-training-video/
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2009
  16. hydrashok

    hydrashok New Member

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    Well, there's a lot of controversy surrounding Yeager's AARs... being there are claims that he fabricated them. If he didn't, then he'd have a heck of a libelous lawsuit claim. It's pretty far out there for someone to make the kinds of claims against Yeager if there was nothing to them. What would be the motivation behind it??

    What it comes down to is this: are you questioning Yeager's credibility as an instructor or are you defending him as a human being?

    I know you bought one of his DVDs. Good for you. Learn what you think is good, and throw out what you think is bad.

    As far as his reputation, peoples' perception is their reality. You can attack or defend his character as you see fit. Everybody's not going to agree with you either way.

    Personally, I prefer less drama.
     
  17. Rentacop

    Rentacop Well-Known Member

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    hyrashok-
    People make false claims all the time for no apparent reason. There is no reason to trust an anonymous web site like that.

    If you read the AARs, you'll see that one is by ERSM and one by Yeager and they pretty much say the same thing. The big argument is about whether Yeager abandoned wounded comerades under fire or simply moved to safer cover. This has been debated on other gun forums a lot.

    The anti-Yeager site could simply be in error as to the facts. That site appears to be an anonymous effort to strike back at Yeager for his critisisms of his former co-workers.

    Some key facts here are 1) the Mercedes was disabled by the initial machine gun fire and so the convoy could not have simply driven out of the kill zone. 2) The three dead men were all hit in the initial fire and Yeager cannot be responsible for their deaths.
    3) Johnson's firing into the air to keep people back may have tipped off the enemy that these cars were carrying contractors and led to the attack.

    Yeager, like most people, is not entirely good or bad. He's a skilled instructor who believes in putting people downrange. He's an experienced high risk contractor with a controversial combat record.

    I'm content to learn what I can from his DVDs and respect your right to refuse to do business with him.
     
  18. SGT-MILLER

    SGT-MILLER New Member

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    Putting people downrange without a good reason (the risk outweighs the gain) is what ruins his credibility as an instructor in my book.

    Doing that is a simple hollywood stunt to make him and his team look "hard" in front of the students. There is no reasonable explanation to do that.

    I couldn't finish watching his video defending that practice. Once he started comparing putting a guy downrange with the risks of driving a car, I turned it off. He brags about being the safest training outfit out there, and I think he's full of it.

    He's another hollywood instructor with an ego to boost.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  19. hydrashok

    hydrashok New Member

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    I just re-read both AARs and reviewed the videos. I could pick apart HIS version of the AAR, but it would really serve no useful purpose. I wasn't there and I simply don't know enough about the incident to judge him one way or another.

    Based on the video of the incident, I'm not really impressed. But I'm also not stupid enough to judge him solely on what I see in the video. I got bit the one time I thought police were shooting an unarmed man in the back as he was running.... I was WRONG!

    I will say this; I'm not too impressed with his AAR. It was very self-serving and self-glorifying. He injected way too much "fluff" for it to be useful.

    ...as a matter of fact, in my spare time, I'll re-write his AAR. I'll post it up here strictly for entertainment value.