Tactical load outs for older men

Discussion in 'Training & Safety' started by bluez, Aug 15, 2020.

  1. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of talking heads in the prepper community , and even in the citizen tactical community that propagate these long lists of what you "have to have" during a bugout and/or during armed ops against your typical communist-mutant-zombie-cannibals enemies of the republic.

    A lot of folks are challenged by age/injury and if they carry a full military load-out will be simply immobile and not contribute any combat power to anyone..

    So what should tactical load out include?

    So lets talk about a whole bunch of things some folks say you "have" to have on you, that you really dont..
    We have to ruthlessly lighten the load.. and these are the things I believe you don't need:

    1) Body Armor...: Most folks who are considered credentialed to talk about tactical load-outs are ex mililitary.. Many of these cut their teeth in the GWOT in the middle east and so will say how body armor is a "must".. usually saying something like "my buddy is alive because he wore it" and that shuts down the conversation.
    But you are not in the GWOT manning checkpoints or conducting domination patrols down streets of hostiles... or doing a static defense on an OP...all these things lend themsleves to body armor.... but you are patrolling your own property or even if/when engaging in offensive ops against enemies foreign or domestic you are probably not getting tactical transportation but hoofing it wherever you go..so your mobility is more important.

    Also most hits in combat are to the extremities anyway that armor doesnt cover.. Also there is free body armor all around you.. a thick tree, a cars engine block... a concrete hiway divider..
    Walk around your environment and try to train yourself to spot cover.

    So support your functional mobility by skipping the armor for everything that is not static defense.

    2) Backup gun... That back up (hand)gun takes the space and weight of 2-3 extra 30 rd magazines for your primary.
    What do you think is realistically more valuable?? a couple extra mags for your long gun or a pistol on your hip?
    Skip the handgun. It looks cool on your hip but in a real shootout against other men with long guns, its a toy.
    Instead carry an extra mag or two, to feed your primary rifle/carbine, or that 2nd quart of water.. or simply save the weight for better mobility,

    3) A cleaning kit for your tactical rifle.. unnecessary for those who really must cut weight on their rig.. as long as it starts out clean you will never carry enough ammo on you to get your rifle dirty to the point of malfunction.
    I had ARs I shot 3000, 4000, even 5000 rounds through, without any cleaning, just to see if they could do it, ...admittedly those were piston ARs that are more tolerant to this sort of thing, but even your run-of-the-mill AR15 doesnt really need cleaning for 1000 rds if you are worried about it getting too dirty to run right.

    4) Food.. the avg american is overfed and can operate for several days without food before it becomes a real problem. If you are going on a one day patrol or a mission that is not long range or long duration, dont bother with it.

    5) No extra boots "just in case"..

    6) Excessive "snivel gear", unless you are on a long range patrol, (which the person this little essay is designed for will not be).. dont bother with a sleeping bag etc.

    So what should you carry to be useful?

    1) Your tactical rifle in good serviceable condition , freshly cleaned, well oiled, your optics with fresh batteries (if it takes batteries).
    For this load out dont bother with spare batteries.. they add a lot of weight for what you get.. you have to accept that risk to save the weight.. Just make sure its a quality battery thats new and check before you leave..

    2) Ammo to feed said rifle... one mag in the rifle and 4 mags on your body.. you are not heavy infantry assaulting Fallujia..a total of 5 mags on your person if you know how to shoot and have the will to do it , will present plenty of problems to any communist orcs you may encounter.

    3) Water. Water is heavy, but there is no way around carrying at least some. Start your "trip" fully hydrated and depending on climate and expected length carry at least a quart of water, better 2.

    4) some other assorted light things.. to carry..
    -Map and compass if you must go out of your local AO,.... if you plan to stay deep in familiar areas.. this may not be necessary but otherwise it is... this is light and a high payoff item if, and only if, you leave the area you are familiar with.
    - spare pairs socks, these are light but very useful.
    - a rainjacket or some one other extra clothing item to keep u dry or warm...if, and only if, you are in a climate where it may be necessary. Otherwise save the weight.
    - a bic lighter
    - a tiny one-way bottle of oil for your rifle IF you expect to be out for more than a day and heavy rains are in the forecast.
    - First Aid kit to include a tourniquet (you know how to use it right?)

    There are plenty of other items folks may suggest... but once you add up all the nice-to-have you defeat the purpose of kitting out light enough a 70 year old can operate with it.

    And this is the goal here. I know several 70 years old that can operate like this.. in one case i had to talk him out of the heavy load he had been suggested elsewhere and now he can run and gun again..

    Also here is an example of a good light minimalist rig I like... notice it has only 4 mag pockets, you could wear that plus a 1 qt canteen on your hip.. done..
    https://uwgearinc.com/swamp-fox-4---mini.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
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  2. armoredman

    armoredman Well-Known Member

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    The absolute first thing to do is define what the mission is, and what you expect to do/accomplish. Then you can figure out what gear you may or may not need. My rifle is reliable and tested, but I do like having my sidearm on me, and it is pretty darn light is the rifle becomes unusable for one reason or another. If the fancy rifle becomes a useless whiffle bat, a sidearm and a few rounds might be more comfort than a Benchmade Auto Stryker. Also, where am I going in your scenario? If I am bugging out, much more would have to be there, unless I have a close destination. Am I part of an organized group already at a destination and patrolling? That would be a practical mistake for me - I lack the skills unfortunately. Am I defending my own home? The armor stays in, then, no question.
    You are right - people load up a LOT of stuff. We didn't have MOLLE or plate carriers when I was in the service, and when I got my first one just recently, yep, I put all KINDS of junk on it. Bad move. Been steadily lightening/streamlining it up, but I wear a plate carrier at work for 12 hours a day, albiet lighter with soft stab inserts, not rifle plates, so I know a LITTLE about how it works. I also went with a double mag pouch only, as if in my home 90 rounds doesn't solve the problem, well, I am having a very, very bad day.
     

  3. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    1) Yes METT-TC dictates always... I did not want to complicate this conversation though because you can METT-TC any setup to death.
    "What if"

    Bottom line you can really streamline your rig if you have physical limitations..and this rig will apply to a great many situations..

    Whether its patrolling aproperty ( you dont patrol it you dont own it).. bugging out at the head of a family out of a urban area to your relatives in the country.. or hoofing it over to a well-liked neighbors house when you hear shooting and its SHTF..

    My premise is be a minimalist.
    (And this premise is useful even to very fit folks IMHO)

    2)If you wear a plate carrier at work you are likely not the target audience tho ;)

    I am also issued a plate carrier at work (though I rarely wear it my job is not trigger pulling, but very different altogether).

    3)About the spare handgun.. I have 50,000+ rounds shot thru Ar15 in recent years... NEVER once had a catastrophic failure in my carbine that could not be fixed in less time than it would take me to go thru my OODA lop and then to a handgun.

    But I have seen plenty of times when folks who carried a handgun ran out of spare mags or water and it took them out of the fight.. even the light weight and bulk of a modern polymer handgun with your primary rarely makes sense outside of a scenario where you ride wherever you go, or are static and always have access to lots of extra stuff.. (like SWAT teams that get followed around by a van full of water and ammo.. they carry back ups because the burden is nil for that reason, they often dont even carry water on their person..)
     
  4. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    Unknown-2.jpeg

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    dog...gun...4wd...blood pressure meds
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  5. TelstaR

    TelstaR Well-Known Member

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    Tactical loadout? How about we simply call a survival issue a survival issue and stop leaning toward some spec op mission. Survival is survival and there is not a whole lot of "tactical" anything going on with one dude running around in some manner of crisis condition.

    Might there be some sort of crisis which disrupts common services for a period of time? Sure. Might that disruption last days or weeks? sure. Might that disruption cause civil unrest, increased crime, a strain on the fabric of society and general lawlessness? Yeah, it might.

    I am not the guy who makes plans around some "escape from NY" or MadMax type scenario.. I dont think that thunderdome is what is in our future. That said, I do consider a firearm to be a realistic part of any survival system. To that end, if I had to hit the road in some sort of "survival" situation, (on my person) would be a single sling pack weighing less than 20 pounds, a good belt knife and a concealed firearm with 2 mags. In my pockets would be some fire starting items, compression bandages, 2aa light, robust folding knife and a handkerchief. I would wear proper earth tone clothing for the season, good boots, gloves , hat, and eye protection.

    I think people focus too narrowly on guns and weapons. I often wonder how many battles a person honestly considers themselves to have. Its just not very realistic to consider repeated combat to be sustainable. I would likely have 1 gun and 2 mags.. thats it. I am not going to carry chest rigs full of mags, battle packs full of ammo, rifles, bump helmets, coms, armor or any of that jazz. I would rather carry more water and datrex food bricks.

    People tend to want to rambo up and run around looking like the poster child of special operations. Not me, I would rather look like a homeless guy that nobody notices or remembers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  6. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Well-Known Member

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  7. Rifling82

    Rifling82 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not sure what I’d be running from, I’m pretty safe at home
     
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  8. TelstaR

    TelstaR Well-Known Member

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    Ships have lifeboats for a reason.

    Its not always about being able to stay home, stay on board or sit it out. Mobile preps are a very realistic considerations. If a person cannot imagine a realistic circumstance where they might be forced to abandon their home or are simply unable to get home.. they are not very imaginative.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
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  9. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Exactly, I bought property 30 years ago, I don't have to leave home to "bug out." I am safer here than anywhere else on earth.

    The whole concept of preparing a portable survival kit, capable of both sustaining a long term existence, in an undeveloped area, while fitting into a motor vehicle, and then driving to some ill defined, more secure, location, where there may, or may not be natives present, where you will establish a sustainable armed camp, in the time of a crisis that is so severe as to completely disrupt civil society, seems like some kind of fantasy to me.

    There are just too many moving parts that could go wrong. The first being transportation. One of the most serious problem is that of finding a sustainable area that someone else is going to want to defend against you, or compete with you to occupy. With transportation gridlocked with people trying to escape long distant movement may be near impossible for people standing by to ambush you on your journey to supply themselves from your stash. When law and order fails, it fails for everyone.

    Chances are, in a truly rapid and catastrophic breakdown of society, you will end up having to tough it out where you are, because there are just not enough golden paths to the mystic mountain where the Rambos of the world shall dwell, in manly comfort, living off of the bounties of nature and the plunder of their fellow men. The thing about chaos is that the chaos you prepare for may not be the chaos you face.

    If you aren't prepared, in place, today, for what you fear, you won't be prepared when the time comes, for it may come before you finish reading this. Ask yourself, if you are ready to go in the next five minutes? You want to protect against the dissolution of society, then work to prevent it. The best path forward to that goal is to vote for sane and rational leaders.
     
  10. Rifling82

    Rifling82 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Guess I don’t have much of an imagination
     
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  11. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    Your welcome to come up here in the hills where we live off the bounties of nature, and insist on being left alone.
    You'll be quite safe here even without you two mags of ammo. :D
     
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  12. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    This is a firearms forum so yes the focus will be on firearms and in this case a minimalist loadout to support use of said firearm.

    Generalist prepper forums do exist and many are quite good.
     
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  13. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    i'm an old man: i ain't into packing a big bunch of doomsday goodies. Don't vote a bunch of crazies into national office: Don't buy into the crazy trash put out by their opposition, and you won't need that stuff.

    Anyone here ever hear of Eric Rudolph, the Atlanta Olympic bomber? After falsely accusing and hassling Richard Jewell over the bombing, the FBI sleuths finally homed in on Eric Rudolph. The FBI cold tracked Rudolph into the Nantahala National Forest around Murphy, NC. The out of shape FBI bunch soon tired out and gave up the hunt.

    Eric Rudolph lived in the boonies year around eating salamanders, fish, game, stolen stuff and dumpster diving.

    Five years later a a rookie Murphy, NC policeman arrested Rudolph as he dined from a dumpster at the local Save-A-Lot store.

    While he was on the lam Rudolph stole and cached dynamite in several locations. Rudolph leveraged knowledge of the dynamite locations into a plea bargain with the feds: The death penalty was dropped.
     
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  14. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    At our age we wont be going anywhere unless the house is destroyed. Even then on foot would be improbable and we are in decent shape for our age. I can still handle 40 lb bags of softener salt. Helped a guy load some 25 lb bags this morning. He said dont get old. I said too late. Turns out he was younger than me.
    Besides that where are you going to go that you would be welcome? The people in the mountains will not be wanting city slickers. Most up there will be armed and might just take what little you have since you wont be needing it when you are dead.
    I do keep firearms suitable for defense at home but if I had to trek they would be too much weight. Seriously looking to a 22lr or 22 mag rifle. A 30 round mag of 5.56x45 is about 1 lb. Same with a Glock 9mm happy stick. That is about 100 rounds of rimfire in mags. My AR weighs about 8 lbs with scope. I could shave 1 lb by going to a red dot. My Keltec Sub 2K weighs 4.5 lbs with a red dot and shares mags with my handgun. A scoped 10-22 weighs 5 lbs. Scope and rings weigh 10 oz but being able to hit something means you wont need as much ammo. Ammo for shotguns is way too heavy.
    I do keep survival stuff and a couple gallons of water in the vehicles. Around here water is the killer. A minimum for a short hike is 2 liters in a hydration pack each. You do not move during the day at this time of year. I always have my carry and extra ammo in the vehicles. Just set up a 10-22 for a trunk gun. 60 miles on foot would be close to a week. I would have to find alternate transportation like a bike or at least a shopping cart to carry enough water. Bikes would cut the time down so less water. I would also have to find more water. 1 week x 2 people = 14 gallons/112 lbs and that is minimal. Chance of finding water on the road is poor. More than likely we would be SOL.
     
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  15. sheriffjohn

    sheriffjohn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Never let gas gauge go below 1/2, case of bottled water in each vehicle and week's worth of meds for both are our basics when travelling. Once back home on the farm, we're good for months. If we'd have to leave, at our ages, trekking would not last long. If the grid ever goes down, we're all screwed.
     
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  16. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Neighbors and I will "bug-in."

    Dozen folks, and lotsa water, food, and ammo if needed.
     
  17. Ghost1958

    Ghost1958 Well-Known Member

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    I personally, now that I'm alone, could leave but I doubt I'd find anyplace better or more defense able to go.
    Plenty of water here, plenty of game, places in a mile of here I could go, disappear and live quite well undetected for a good year.
    I dont need electric or running water though it's nice to have.

    That said my interest in survival isnt what it used to be not long ago. Now I'll be content to just stay here and take as many boogies out as I can, out of pure spite, before they put me out of my misery. That'll be good enough.
     
  18. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    With a total collapse a lot of people will be dead in 1 year. If you can shelter in place for 1 year there will be a lot less competition for resources.
     
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  19. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    What does this have to do with anything?
     
  20. bluez

    bluez Well-Known Member

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    This thread went, as always, seriously off the rails. :eek:

    As was written in the OP this is specifically a thread about what a streamlined tactical load-out might be for an aged individual that has significant physical limitations...

    It is not about bugging out (though there is admittedly some possible overlap and it could be used as such, in a kinetic environment, but this is not the intent, I thought this was quite clear)

    Sometimes I think some folks just like to scan a post, then interpret into it what they expect based on the memes and cliches they have been exposed to previously.....up to and including reading into it something thats not there.

    Sigh.. sometimes I wonder why I even bother....:(
     
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