Straw purchase

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by F4U, Nov 19, 2013.

  1. F4U

    F4U Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I was at a gun show sunday and a guy that had a bunch of mosins was selling them 2 for $259. My friend and I thought this would be a good deal to go halves on but neither one of us had the cash on us then. This guy is at every show so we figured next month we look into this closer.

    On the way home it occurred to me that if I hand him my half of the price or he hands me his half of the price and one or the other of us buys a pair this would technically be a straw purchase on the second rifle.

    To be legal we would both have to fill out the form and do the background check.

    Am I right about this or am I overthinking it?
     
  2. bige91603

    bige91603 New Member

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    one person could purchase both rifles and then sell your friend the second one with a bill of sale. But I would recommend that you both feel out the transfer form
     

  3. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    As long as your state allows private sales without paperwork I can't see an issue there with one of you buying them both then selling one to you.


    A bill of sale would be a good idea.
     
  4. okdonk

    okdonk New Member

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    A bill of sale dated at least 24 hours later.
     
  5. austin92

    austin92 New Member

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    Indiana requires no bill of sale for any rifle
     
  6. clr8ter

    clr8ter New Member

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    Why couldn't you simply tell him what the thing is, and he could do 2 different checks? On a deal like that, it must happen all the time…...
     
  7. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    In NY, the situation your describing is a conundrum in the making! What makes sense and what you can do are two subjects all together. I suspect we wont be seeing an BOGO's in NY for that reason alone. Cant sell without a transfer through a FFL except in a very few family situations. Even then, its encouraged that it be done through an FFL.

    The whole notion that Intent has been subjugated by the possibility of bad things happening when considering a straw purchase is confusing as hell to me. I really cant have my buddy pick me up a couple boxes of shotgun shells when hes at the store, thats a straw purchase in NY! Hell, my Dad died when I was 6, Mom didnt go to gun stores often or ever but my best friends Dad and my Brother in Law taught me how to shoot and hunt. They took me to the store and I bought my own damn ammo when I was 12, I would be phucked today if I was a kid, "No Bullets or Guns for You Son, sorry your Dad died!", Thanks allot MFer...
     
  8. trip286

    trip286 New Member

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    Considering it's a gun show, meaning I'm sure it's pretty informal, just talk to the seller. He'd have to be a dick to not work something out with you and your buddy.

    Explain your concerns and that you're friends, and offer to do two background checks for the packaged deal price, or for maybe just a few dollars more. Some places charge a transfer fee of about 20 bucks for private sales that need a transfer, so maybe offer a couple bucks extra for his time?. He'd probably be okay with it unless he suspects you're just two random guys that met each other there.

    Other than that, the BATF essentially is supposed to be more concerned with those "engaging in the business" without a license. So if you buy two, then on the ride to the house you agree to sell one to your friend for what you bought it for, you should have nothing on your conscience.

    Straw purchase laws are more to keep those who've had their gun rights taken away, from getting guns. They're not really intended to keep two buddies from getting a good deal on old milsurp rifles. BUT, enforcing that is open to interpretation.

    I would buy the pair, then sell one to my buddy right in the parking lot.
     
  9. Rick1967

    Rick1967 Well-Known Member

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    If it were me I would be up front with the seller. In Colorado the buyer must pay $10 for the background check. I would offer to pay the extra $10 for the second check. But the way I read the law...if you don't have enough of your own money to purchase both rifles, and you use your friend's money combined with your money...that is the definition of a strawman sale.
     
  10. chloeshooter

    chloeshooter New Member

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    are you able to purchase a firearm on your own? (I am supposing yes, of course). You are not planning on re-selling this to a gangster in Chicago? (supposing you are not. A hood rat with a Mosin is in itself a funny sight to imagine). If your state allows private sales as was said, I think you are well within the letter and intent of the law.
     
  11. GTX63

    GTX63 New Member

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    God Bless Indiana.
     
  12. ScottA

    ScottA FAA licensed bugsmasher Lifetime Supporter

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    Unfortunately in this day and age, I am more apt to believe that straw purchase rules are there for the convenience of the BATFE, not to prevent any crime. It is just one more regulation that allows the feds to pin something on someone if need be, much like tax law.

    With that in mind, I would try to get the second background check at purchase.
     
  13. JTJ

    JTJ Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I see it as a straw purchase as the rifle was being purchased for someone other than the purchaser. The seller should allow the use of separate forms but it is his prerogative. If he wont then walk away and do business elsewhere. It is not worth the risk.
     
  14. F4U

    F4U Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks guys my real concern was what scott said about the convenience of batf.

    I suppose a couple of 50 year old guys could be going to use their ill gotten mosins for thuggery in Chicago. Then again we are in Ohio and that's just too far to drive for a weekend of thuggery. :p

    In Ohio person to person transfers require no paperwork or background check as long as neither is an ffl.
     
  15. therewolf

    therewolf New Member

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    I'd just buy the rifles separately. You would not be saving

    a significant amount of money here, in order to risk the

    wrath of the gods...
     
  16. FFL01user

    FFL01user New Member

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    At this time, it is legal and not a "straw purchase" in NY.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2013
  17. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    That's how it is here. I don't know if the guy you where buying form was an FFL and if one of you did fill out the form and you check the box I'm buying this/these for me then it can get more complicated.

    I guess one could say that you just "borrowed" a little money off a friend to get the two then realized you didn't want two and gave him one;)
    I would at the least though if it was an FFL sale say if the friend wanted or needed to sell it later that you get first crack at it before it went out into the wild.