Steel case ammo produce more pressures?

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by PaBushMan, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. PaBushMan

    PaBushMan Well-Known Member

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    I found some 9mm steel case winchester. They had primer strikes so duds. I pulled them to reload them into brass cases. I noticed they had very little powder. Maybe 2.5 grains at a guess. The bullets were also con-caved on the bottom.
     
  2. AgedWarrior

    AgedWarrior Active Member

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    Pressure limits/standards are the same whether you have brass, aluminum, or steel cases. Steel cased stuff does not contract the same as brass after firing, that’s why they use lacquer coating to ease extraction. I guess you didn’t measure the powder, but it was probably a relatively fast burning powder, thus very small amounts.
     
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  3. PaBushMan

    PaBushMan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah i didn't weigh it. It was a very small particle shiney powder,
     
  4. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    PA

    It depends on the Powder they use. But depending on the Powder, most *Normal 9mm Rounds contain anywhere from 4 to 6 Grains of various powders.

    However,
    If this is the Winchester Rounds you are referring to in the Picture below?
    The Winchester Steel Case 9mm Forged load isn’t loaded hot, but it is service grade in order to provide a meaningful inexpensive practice round. The Forged line was clearly accurate enough for meaningful practice. So they very will could only be loaded with 2.5 Grains of powder.
    Winchester Steel Case.jpg

    03
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
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  5. PaBushMan

    PaBushMan Well-Known Member

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    I think that is what they were. My go to load for 115 grain is 4.5 grains of Allient sport pistol.
     
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  6. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    MY "go to" practice loads use HS-6, Power Pistol and AAC#7 well above today's "book" max, but within the 1960s-1970s book max.

    I can load the MilSurp cases 6-8 times, so my pressures are not excessive.

    I get the same recoil impulse and velocity as factory +P+

    1350-1400 FPS depending on the weapon.
     
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  7. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

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    Correction, the com bloc used lacquer both to seal the cartridge and make it sit tighter in the receiver.

    Also, both steel and brass do not contract after firing. Brass expands more than steel does, but extracts with the same force and often gets warped in the AK.
     
  8. AgedWarrior

    AgedWarrior Active Member

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    After reading your post I did some investigating since I do not use steel case ammo, and do not want to be speaking out of ignorance. The Germans seem to have been the first to use steel cases (WWII), and they coated them simply to prevent corrosion, that fact has pretty much remained unchanged except now a lot of it is coated with polymer, which is less effective. It has nothing to do with making it sit tighter in the receiver and everything to do with corrosion prevention. Brass does expand better than steel and thus seals the chamber better to prevent gas blowing back and getting carbon build up in the chamber which steel cases tend to do more than brass. Brass does, however, spring back better than steel too and thus enables extraction unless the cartridge is over pressured by factory error or reloading error, the latter being more likely.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  9. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

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    Tighter fit in the chamber was desirable to the Russians who used steel cases for a long time. They are the ones who still manufacture and sell lacquered steel. Originally the AK round often rattled when chambered. They found that lacquered ammo did better. So yes, it was a secondary reason to use lacquer.

    Do you know how the Brown Bear shell cases get stuck in tighter western built chambers? That’s why.

    I don’t know why you need to push back. Nobody knows everything. This is what I know, or wouldn’t post. Go ahead, make it an ego trip, I won’t debate.
     
  10. locutus

    locutus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Norinco (Chinese) use copper wash in place of lacquer.

    Barnaul uses Zinc coating in their "Silver Bear" line.
     
  11. AgedWarrior

    AgedWarrior Active Member

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    Not an ego trip friend, actually I was motivated to really examine the subject a little more by your post. If you thought it was push back, sorry, was not my intention. Just learning a bit...I, for sure, do not know everything, but I am also not afraid to speak up.
     
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  12. Mercator

    Mercator Well-Known Member

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    Pardon me as well. I need to go back to work.
     
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  13. tinbucket

    tinbucket Well-Known Member

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    I've seen loads that didn't get a full charge or powder either squib or not fire at all. Not US mfg, and some time ago. Too light of a load in some calibers can damage the gun..
     
  14. PaBushMan

    PaBushMan Well-Known Member

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    I hate when i forget to pull the powder drop handle. And i get a squib from just a primer firing. It happened the other day. And i left my range tools at home. I have a squib removal tool i made.
     
  15. austin92

    austin92 Well-Known Member

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    This is why I quit buying Winchester ammo. It’s the worst brand of ammo I’ve experienced.