STAG Model 1 or Model 2?

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by BTenn, Feb 15, 2012.

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  1. BTenn

    BTenn New Member

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    I think I have decided to get the model 2 bc of the flip up and down iron sights... Would you back my decision or choose differently? Why?
     
  2. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    For the money you can ditch the commercial grade non mil-spec AR for something much better from a more consistent company. Colt 6920, BCM, Spikes, PSA, LMT...
     

  3. EiteCombat

    EiteCombat New Member

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    Why does everyone try to talk people out of Stag on this forum? I've read great things everywhere else. Does a 4150 steel 1:9 chrome lined barrel and a 11595E Certified 1:7 barrel make that much of a difference for a regular person? Thats the only difference.
     
  4. billt

    billt New Member

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    Not at all. The fact is a 1 in 9" twist barrel is far more useful to the average shooter, which is why so many AR-15 manufacturers use them. The only reason the military specifies a 1 in 7" twist is because of the much longer tracer round projectiles they fire.

    In fact if you take a look at the new Hornady 8th Edition Reloading Manual, all of the loading data they have published for the .223 / 5.56 MM Service Rifle was obtained using a Colt AR-15 with a 1 in 9" twist Citadel barrel. This data includes bullet weights up to, and including their 80 grain A-Max bullet. Hornady could have easily used a 1 in 7" twist barrel for achieving their data if they thought it would have provided more accuracy. They did not.
     
  5. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    I have 2 1:7 barrels one shoots 55 gr fine the other not so much , I have had to switch over to 62 gr to get the accuracy I was looking for and you dont find 62 gr on every shelf of your local shops its mostly 55 gr and under varmit loads . I have a 1:12 savage and I couldnt ask for a better gun with 55 gr bullets .5" moa @ 100 . If I had to do it again with limited access to 62 gr I would have went 1:9 just for that reason . I dont own one but Stag is a fine rifle and I believe they offer a lifetime guarantee on their barrels now . There are cheaper rifles out there and higher priced rifles out there , but if thats what you want dont second guess yourself or let anyone talk you out of it .
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  6. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    There's more to it than the barrel. Look at some forums where the guys use their firearms more often and in more demanding situations.

    Who puts 1:9 barrels on their ARs, the low end manufacturers. Coincidence, I'm betting against it.

    Not saying Stag is horrible but, there are better choices for the money and you won't have to pay extra for standard features.
     
  7. EiteCombat

    EiteCombat New Member

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  8. Sniper03

    Sniper03 Supporting Member Supporter

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    Only a thought!
    All of this Mil-Spec stuff is a lot hoopla! And used as a sales gimmick in the commercial market. It is a Military adopted standard as those of us in the weapons industry have complied to as a base standard. But in reality a lot of the quality gun manufacturers hold tighter specs than those that are required in the Mil Spec Standard specifications. And I must say there are a few that do lend to be *less than Mil-Spec Standards. But for most of us who cares if the barrel is coated under the front sight housing and on the feed ramps. Sabre for example when they were in business being Mil-Spec polished the Feed Ramps on their rifle barrels before coating. While Rock River and others polish after the coating process which would not be acceptable by Mil-Spec standard. There are alot of great rifles out there to choose from. Like Rock River Arms, Stag, Daniels Defense, Les Baer. And yes some of my other favorites are LMT who builds a fine piece also. The modern Colts?? I have heard that Spikes also builds a good weapon. So moral of the story do not get hung up "totally" on the Mil-Spec issue. It does not always mean you are getting the best weapon or the best quality weapon you can buy. And I would suggest going with the 1:9 :)

    03
     
  9. jgand72

    jgand72 New Member

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    I bought a Stag Model 2 last May, and I have had nothing but good things to say about it. Accurate, and not a single problem yet.
     
  10. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    So let me get this straight because it has more than 1:7 twist is a low end manufacturer ?
    I would gladly put my 1:12 barrel to your 1:7 twist at 500 yards and we will see who shoots the tightest groups . Twist is nothing more than how fast it spins the bullet , tighter twists are made for better accuracy in heavier bullets like a 75 gr , just like a 1:12 spins a 45-55 gr varmit round real nice , Barrel quality is not measured by barrel twist so lets get things straight , a 1:9 twist will damn near shoot anything you put down the barrel . cram a 45 gr varmit round down your 1:7 barrel and let me know if you can hit anything ? You wont, it will spin the bullet apart before it ever reachs 20 yards. Most high end target rifles are using a 1:8-1:12 twist in .223 so you cannot say that anything more than 1:7 is substandard on quality in any rifle . 1:7 twist is Mil Spec , whooppeeee, whats that mean ? Nothing , Thats just what the military uses to meet their specs in a gun they order , does that mean its better quality or better shooting than a 1:8 or 1:9 . NO!!! thats just the standard they use .
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  11. billt

    billt New Member

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    Exactly. Barrel twist has about as much to do with the quality level of an AR-15, or any other weapon, about as much as the phases of the Moon. This is exactly the kind of stupid, mall ninja crap that constantly gets spewed on these forums, that does absolutely nothing but mislead honest people trying to get good information.

    Manufacturers use 1 in 9" twist barrels because they are by far the most useful, and can shoot a much wider range of bullet weights, not because they are cheaper, or are of lesser quality. That kind of thinking is purely absurd. As was pointed out even Colt has gone to 1 in 9" twist rates in their barrels because they offer more practicality than a 1 in 7" twist does for most all users.

    In bolt guns, many of which far outclass AR-15's in accuracy, a 1 in 10", or even a 1 in 12" twist is utilized with great accuracy results in .223 caliber. It costs no more to manufacture a barrel in a 1 in 7" twist, than it does in any other twist rate. It has nothing to do with quality, or if the manufacturer using them is "high end". That is complete and total nonsense.
     
  12. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    The satement I made is correct. You will find the majority of 1:9 barrels on ARs from manufacturers who are known for producing lower end ARs. I didn't say twist had anything to do w/ the overal quality of the AR. You guys really need to read the entire post before getting all emotional and jumping to defend you choices.

    There's a lot to be said about companies that meet or exceed the minimum standard considering the amount of those who don't care to put forth the effort to yet still charge a similar price.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  13. EiteCombat

    EiteCombat New Member

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    Again I state, so Colt is known for lower end ARs?? Someone better tell the Gov't.:rolleyes:
     
  14. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    What twist are the majority of Colt barrels. Pointing out an exception to the rule doesn't change the rule.

    Have you heard of "whole sight?" It's seeing the entire picture using the mind and emotion rather than one or the other. Whole sight prevents instances like we are having here.
     
  15. EiteCombat

    EiteCombat New Member

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    You still have failed to defend your point to the people who are giving you info about the different twists. You have yet to comment on either post by billt or purehavoc (explaining the difference) who obviously know more then you. I don't claim to be an expert or even know a lot about the subject but I'm just calling it like I see it.
     
  16. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    Its not that we are defending our choices we are stating facts about barrel twist , Most of the 1:7 twist barrels are being done by companies that are staying in Mil Spec , Why because they want to have products with those specs , that doesnt make them any better or more accurate , I feel like your trying to get people to believe Mil Spec is just " better". Its just a specification that the military wants their rifle built to, as to these other companies follow because thats the spec they want . These " out of Mil-spec barrel twists" do nothing but help the owner use a wider range of ammo that cannot be used effectivly in a 1:7 Mil spec barrel .
     
  17. kryptar19

    kryptar19 New Member

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    No matter what mjkeat says, Stag is a higher end AR company. ask anyone that owns one and they will tell its a fantastic weapon. A 1in9 twist barrel is perfect for anybody that ain't going to afganistan.
    Mjkeat is just a stag hater.
    Ohh and my stag model 1 is awesome, but go with the 2. Flat tops are a little simpler to mod if ur into that.
     
  18. EiteCombat

    EiteCombat New Member

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    BTW, this thread is about whether to get a Stag Model 1 or 2. This has gone a bit off topic. But back to my origional point, he is asking which STAG he should get. Not which brand.

    Bten, I own the Model 1 but the model 2 does seem nice with the flip up sights. If I had known at the time I might have gotten that one instead because I'm just going to remove the carry handle and put an optic on there anyway. So it seems a little more versitile then the model 1 with that in mind.
     
  19. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    Look at the different manufacturers and tell me who produces the most ARs with 1 in 9 twist barrels. That was the extent of my comment. People seem to read into my comments way too much and substitute their meaning for mine.
     
  20. mjkeat

    mjkeat New Member

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    If you read my post above your last post you'll see that I said mil spec is the minimum standard and some can't even reach the minimum standard. Stag is 1 of those companies. In fact ill charge you an extra 100 dollars for the trouble to meet mil spec standard. If they're treating mil spec as an upgrade what does that tell you about them as a company?
     
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