Stag arms JUNK!???

Discussion in 'AR-15 Discussion' started by shrugod, Jul 6, 2008.

  1. shrugod

    shrugod New Member

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    bought one few days ago, a4 style. cleaned and oiled it. every single shell would stick in the barrel without ejecting and i had to go get a nice stiff rod to get them all out.
    so i oiled the living sht out of it, and it worked for about a hundred rounds, and then bang, same issue. had to clean it, and dump it full of oil for it to work again. while this is going on, sometimes the thing has to be operated in bolt action, as the bolt wont go back all the way to get the next round. this happens about ten percent of the time. is stag junk, or did i just get a bad one?
    is there a brand i can just to buy and clean and oil like a normal gun and have it function? at this point id rather have an sks
     
  2. RL357Mag

    RL357Mag New Member

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    Need more info.. What ammo are you using? Is the gun chambered for .223 or 5.56 x45? Stag (CMT) makes receivers and parts for the Military and others - they don't make junk from what I've heard...but if you are using cheap steel cased laquer coated ammo or trying to feed 5.56 ammo into a .223 chamber, you might have a problem. See the post entitled "5.56 or .223".

    PS - Laquer-coated steel cased ammo is not good to use in the AR because the chamber temp. causes the laquer to melt and adhere to the chamber walls making extraction difficult if not impossible - this can cause broken or stuck cases requiring a broken case extractor.. steel cased ammo is fine for AK's and SKS's because they have relatively sloppy chambers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2008

  3. shrugod

    shrugod New Member

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    it is steel cased ammo (wolf). barrel is 556 nato. i had a colt years ago before it got banned in my state, and that thing never had a problem with the wolf stuff. i guess maybe i just got a bad one. im gonna take it to stag on wednesday (they are right around the corner).
     
  4. G21.45

    G21.45 New Member

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    Slow down there, partner! Stag Arms doesn't make junk. Call the factory; talk to them and tell them what you are doing. There's a right answer and that new rifle will work.
     
  5. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    +1 to RL and G21

    Stag Arms ( CMT ) make upper and lower receivers for many, MANY modern firearms companies that sell "complete" weapons.

    Get on the phone with the folks at the production house and tell them what you are doing, they will help you out.

    As for wolf ammo - that wouldn't be my first choice to run through a brand new rifle. Come to think of it, it wouldn't be on my list at all...

    JD
     
  6. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Stag Arms guns are not junk. I own a fairly new left hand Stag Arms AR15. That gun has not had a malfunction in over 1,200 rounds. Never fired any steel cased Wolf ammo in it.
     
  7. slowryde45

    slowryde45 New Member

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    a few observations

    First...call the Stag tech line and let them know what is going on. It could be a combination of things. As for the Wolf being the culprit, interesting that David Fortier, who writes for several gun mags and is quite a gun afficianado himself, often uses Wolf ammo in his gun reviews with no probs. Most of the Wolf available now is no longer lacquer coated, but polymer coated. Also if it was lacquer coated, you would have had to fire several rounds through the gun to heat the barrel up enough to melt the lacquer or polymer on any rounds. But that doesn't seem to be the case. So, another possibility is, a weak extractor spring, which is a common AR flaw. This is easily fixed by replacing the spring with a stronger spring, or one of the rubber donuts or D-rings that basically strengthens the extractor spring. And you might also be adding to the problem with OVER oiling, too.

    Again, talk to their tech line first. True, you may have got a "bad" unit off the line. Highly doubtful, as Stag is very quality conscious, but even the best can have an off day or bad production run. But call them and I'm sure they will point you in the right direction to solve this.

    Slo
     
  8. Slickrick214

    Slickrick214 New Member

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    Stag Arms junk...no. The ammo your using is probably the problem. Its a laquer coated steel case its going to cause problems with exctracting when the laquer melts then re-hardens. Call Stag and see what they say also you might want to try new ammo.
     
  9. G21.45

    G21.45 New Member

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    :) Well, I don't know about anyone else, but, that resounding endorsement certainly sold me! From now on it's going to be nothing but Wolf ammo.

    What? With gas well over $4.00 a gallon it's going to have to be Wolf ammo from now on. :p
     
  10. Slickrick214

    Slickrick214 New Member

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    Thats not going to cut it for me. What guns did he test the Wolf ammo in? He could test it in an Ak47 and it might work great then come out and say its great ammo. It doesn't mean its going to be great in AR 15's and other guns. (I'm not saying thats what he did though).
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2008
  11. G21.45

    G21.45 New Member

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    :rolleyes: Ahhh .... I was being facetious!






    (Truth is, I wouldn't own the crap.) ;)
     
  12. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    No way will I feed Wolf (particularly the steel-cased stuff) to my AR. So far, my Stag has performed flawlessly.
     
  13. slowryde45

    slowryde45 New Member

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    ?

    Not that it matters to me what you choose to use in any of your firearms, but no where did I state that you should or should not use Wolf ammunition either. I simply stated that this particular person has incorporated Wolf ammunition in his tests/reviews of AR's quite often, ranging from entry level units to high dollar units, with no stated problems. Do a search on the internet to find any of his reviews. David Fortier. And he isn't the only one who does it.

    No, I do not use Wolf ammunition in my AR's. No, not because I'm afraid that it might cause the same malfunctions as the original poster is experiencing either. It's because I typically get 2.5 to 3 moa using Wolf even in my most accurate AR's (Les Baer and a Noveske). So I prefer to use brands or reloads that are more accurate.

    But I don't think that is the only problem the original poster is having with his Stag. Without knowing all the conditions/particulars, we are all just pissing in the wind.

    Try a thorough cleaning of the chamber and barrel, without over-oiling it. Then put in a different magazine loaded with some other ammunition in .223 and see if the problem is repeating with different mags and different ammo. If the chamber is clean, not undersized from repeated lacquering, then one of the problems should be solved. If it is still not ejecting the spent ammunition (the "bolt action" reference), then it sounds like it is the extractor spring. You could also isolate this by trying a different bolt carrier assembly if you have one. And again....call their tech line.
     
  14. bkt

    bkt New Member

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    No, but shrugod said it was Wolf, and the behavior described is in line with many other stories online from AR owners.

    No doubt. A buddy of mine runs Wolf through his AR with no problems. (He uses the brass-cased stuff without the sticky lacquer stuff, though.)

    There are a number of opinion posts out there saying Wolf is pretty dirty, not very accurate and that the steel-cased stuff can cause premature wear on your AR. Those are the reasons I'm not going to mess with it. (If I had an AK, I'd be all over inexpensive Wolf ammo.)
     
  15. slowryde45

    slowryde45 New Member

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    no problem...

    BKT,

    No problem, no offense taken either. I know of quite a few that do use Wolf in their AR's (not cheap brands or inexperienced users either), with decent results. I don't encourage or discourage it. By all means, use, own, enjoy what you can afford and what works for you.

    In this case, obviously something isn't working for the original poster. I guess I just tire of all the internet "cool-aid" of brand bashing, which one is better, etc, etc. There are just too many unknowns to point the finger just at the ammunition, and not enough heating up of the barrel (because he couldn't fire enough through it) to cause the type of problems that so many point the finger at Wolf about. So the problem is most likely someplace else. That's why I was trying to suggest other areas to look at, too. ;)

    To the original poster, I hope you were able to get a hold of the Stag folks and get/got the problem figured out.

    Slo
     
  16. shrugod

    shrugod New Member

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    well, thanks for all the responses. to answer a few of your posts, i have tried several different magazines (13, two of them stag, six of them original gi, and the rest unknown)
    i do not believe that wolf is the problem, as i stated earlier that i had a colt i used to run the stuff through with no problem. as for accuracy of the stuff, i have my m1a for that. the stag is the toy that i shoot the hell out of, and when i want to get out some aggression with a thousand rounds, 200 bucks for wolf beats the hell out of six hundred for good stuff.
    i am going to take it down to stag arms like i said, they are right around the corner from me here in CT.
    i can see the bolt action problem being something misaligned or something of that sort, but the stuck shells puzzle me.
    it is comforting to know that you all do not believe it is a piece of crap. that is really what the original post was asking.
     
  17. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    I personally would be really surprised if Stag Arms turned out an inferior unit and it reached the market. I would suppose it does happen, but CMT/Stag has been turning out the uppers & lowers used by countless companies to build their $1300 and $1800 "House Rifles". Their Quality Assurance program is pretty good - because they have a lot of customers.

    One could always squeak through, and it's entirely possible something like that happened. However, if it did, I would highly suspect they would make immediate amends.

    Good luck! Please let us know what they do for you in this case...

    JD
     
  18. RMTactical

    RMTactical New Member

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    Stag makes good stuff.
     
  19. shrugod

    shrugod New Member

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    UPDATE;
    went to stag arms with the rifle. they solved my problems.

    the problem with the "bolt action" was that the wolf military classic ammo does not have as much powder as most other loads, resulting in the bolt not always going back all the way to chamber the next round. they told me they would adjust the rifle if i wanted, so that it would take less power to push the bolt back. (they offered this service for FREE)

    the problem with the rounds jamming in the bore every 50 rounds; they told me that they guaranteed that if i went to brass cased that it would not happen. that if it happened like that with brass they would buy my gun back immediately. they also stated that wolf will work in the gun if i were to take a chamber brush and use it every fifty rounds.
    so i bit the bullet, went out and bought 500 rounds of winchester brass case. i loaded up every magazine i have, cleaned the gun well, and fired every round off in less than 5 minutes. NO PROBLEMS AT ALL!! additionally, when i pulled the bolt back and looked in, the residue was barely visible, as if i had just fired 100 rounds of wolf, not 500!

    my conclusion? you get what you pay for. i should have known better. if some ammo costs half of what everything else goes for, im gonna get half the fun.
    and stag arms is a very customer friendly company, far from junk!
     
  20. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

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    That is really good to hear. Customer service is something that has gone to hell in a hand basket in this country, so it is always good to hear about a company willing to do the right thing with their products after the sale.

    Thank you very much for posting the results of your trip back to Stag and their answers.

    Good news for all to know in the future....

    JD