Soldiers are still dying

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Rocky7, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. Rocky7

    Rocky7 New Member

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    OTTAWA — The federal government was pushed Wednesday to do more to help soldiers struggling with mental illness following news a fourth Canadian soldier died in an apparent suicide.

    Master Cpl. Sylvain Lelievre, 46, was found dead Monday in the basement of his home near the Canadian Forces base in Valcartier, Que.

    Three Canadian Forces members died in suspected suicides last week.

    A member of the Royal 22e Regiment at CFB Valcartier, Lelievre joined the army in 1985 and was deployed three times, twice to Bosnia and once to Kandahar in Afghanistan.......



    It's real sad to think that they made it through the 2-way firing ranges and then crumpled at home.

    Four in one week? That is intolerable. This needs to be fixed asap.

    http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/12/20131204-105257.html
     
  2. rocshaman

    rocshaman New Member

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    I'm not at all sure what to think about soldier suicide. Maybe it's gone on forever, but I've never heard about it until just the last few years. I wonder if it has anything to do with the way they were raised. It is a total tragedy though but I'm not sure the government of any country has the ability to fix anything like that.
     

  3. Rocky7

    Rocky7 New Member

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    Maybe not entirely, rocshaman, but I am very annoyed that we can pizz away billions in this country on liberal stupidity like gun registration and $750k a pop for a series of sex change operations for a perv while these veterans don't get full access to a shrink and a place where they can meet and talk and whatever else might relieve the nightmares.

    Some would die anyway, I know that. I just don't see much *&*@!** effort.
     
  4. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    I would imagine soldier suicide has been happening forever. It probably just wasn't put in the news until recently.
     
  5. SSGN_Doc

    SSGN_Doc Well-Known Member

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    The military down here has been tracking increased suicides for the last decade. Last year was pretty bad. The year before that was worse. This year hasn't been as bad as last year.


    Each year though, November through the beginning of February is the worst period in and out of the military. Seems the holiday season magnifies emotions for many people. And in the Pacific Northwest people often also feel the effects of Seasonal Affective Disorder due to gloomy weather and reduced daylight hours. Lots of factors have an effect on people this time of year, and our military folks are just a sub-group of society who would be just like everyone else. Then add stress of deployments, time away from family, returning home having been changed by things they've experienced, trying to readjust to home life. Some come home to find their expected home life has changed and they are no longer welcomed in their previous relationships.

    It sucks. It is complex, and it often waxes and wanes for no explainable reason.
     
  6. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    Suicides been way up in the US Armed forces over the last 10 years. There have been studies but I doubt we need them to tell us why this is the case. Its clear that endless and countless deployments and redeployments into war zones have taken a huge toll on those subjected to them. Additionally, the military is now dumping as many as they can as our missions disappear and a retrograde plan for cutting spending means they are no longer needed. "OK Men, you did a great job killing for the US, now go out there and get a job"...

    The things they have seen and experienced are different than most prior wars mostly due to the IED's, I cant imagine trying to erase the vision of your buddies losing his lower body extremities because they walked 2 steps too far and those that took those 2 steps too far cant escape the terror it wreaked on their bodies and minds ever.

    Weve already forgotten about the first 2 wars in Iraq and preparing to call Bygones in Afghanistan, our memories are short because we only experienced it on the Television, like a movie, it ends when the footage stops running. Their memories are long and terror provoking and probably wont ease just because a POTUS tells them go home and rejoin your lives, like war never even happened.

    Its not bad enough weve required so many of our youngest adult citizens to live much of their adult lives in war zones, our president has offered them up to other nations like Libya, Syria an Egypt as defensive walls before they can even complete the missions they were engaged in. Sustained war over decades with no end in sight is terminally destructive to the psyche of those we task with keeping them going that we should not wonder why they would choose to end their lives, just do what we can to end the damn wars and get the phuck out.

    They keep saying "not one more", they are always wrong, because the boxes just keep coming home full...
     
  7. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

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    I don't think warfare in Afghanistan is any more traumatic than any other war. IEDs, UEDs, BTs, AP and AT mines have been around a long time. I think rather that multiple deployments are a major contributor to mental strain. You can even get to a point where you like being in a combat environment and feel isolated, unfulfilled and depressed when you are at home. Civilians have a very hard time understanding that last statement, but it's true.

    Keep in mind also that military suicides get media coverage and civilian suicides generally do not. I don't know what the suicide statistics are in Canada, but I've seen studies done here in the States that show that military suicide rates are comparable and often lower proportionately than civilian suicides.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
  8. John_Deer

    John_Deer New Member

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    Lots of suicides are caused by the bureaucracy of the VA. By the time a disabled veteran gets his claim settled he has lost all of his material possessions and his family by the time the VA gets around to sending the man a check. A personal friend of mine was paralyzed in Iraq. It took over 3 years for him to get 100% DAV status. How the hell is someone who is paralyzed from the neck down be considered as 60% disabled? 60% was his initial ruling by the VA.

    A horse fell on me breaking my neck and back. Even though I had a business that was bringing in some income I was really depressed during the period of therapy. If I had gone anywhere besides the VA for my therapy I would not have made it. The therapy was painful. But when I saw people that had become my brothers going through worse I could not fall out. How could I let these men down by quitting? Today no one can tell I suffered a spinal cord injury. I walk normally and I still ride horses.

    Fighting the battle of regaining my health was bad enough. How are our disabled veterans supposed to fight battles that are harder not knowing if they are going to have anything left, even if they make a complete recovery?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
  9. Rocky7

    Rocky7 New Member

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    Canada has ignored the issue and covered up the data. There are promises of studies and surveys but if they have been completed, they are not well known.

    I don't think it's much better in the U.S. I can find one recent study that finds a 350% increase in suicide rates among U.S. female veterans. What does it mean? What is being done? Who knows.

    http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2010/12/07/suicides-amongst-female-war-veterans/

    It just really, really riles me up to think that our dummass government has lots of money and lots of attention for dummass liberal causes but precious little for veterans. I know this was no better, or worse, for our WWII and Korean veterans....so what? Have we learned nothing?

    It seems to me there's not much effort being made and that's a crying shame.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
  10. TimL2952

    TimL2952 New Member

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    This is my dilemma...It seems really similar to the bullying problem in the States. We know bullying has been going on forever, but it's just now, in the past few years, that people have began to kill themselves over it and the media is talking about it.
     
  11. winds-of-change

    winds-of-change The Balota's Staff Member

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    I think the bullying situation has gotten worse since victims could be stalked at not only the schools but in cyberspace.
     
  12. Rocky7

    Rocky7 New Member

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    I get the point about bullying and maybe we'd both agree that the traditional solution of a punch in the mouth has always been the best way to deal with most of that rather than getting into a tizzy about it.

    But this thing with veterans is different for me. I've never liked the idea of someone fighting my fights for me and that's what I see when some guys in uniform go to stinky, dark or hot places to fight, bleed and/or die. It seems to me that we owe them an honest effort to help to pick up the pieces regardless whether or not we personally agreed with the mission. The fact is they were sent and they went.

    And I do understand that some people will kill themselves regardless of any past military service. I even understand that maybe this is as good as it gets. What I don't understand is why the effort is not better. And I don't understand why some other rubbish has a higher priority.
     
  13. rocshaman

    rocshaman New Member

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    I totally agree with you Rocky, we spend billions on people that won't work for a living but yet find it so hard to help out our returning soldiers. They should be priority ONE in this country for what they've gone through. My earlier point was simply this: people back a few generations had harder lives and they were tough before they ever hit boot camp. A lot of kids these days on the other hand, have more sheltered, pampered lives. Maybe it makes a difference in how they react to the horrors of war. WWII and WWI were both terrible struggles but the men seemed to adjust better when they returned. I don't know, all I really know is they should be given all the help and support they need.
     
  14. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    this has been an issue for me for some years now. our own government supports and props up people who exist only form taking from the government, but contribute nothing in return, but our veerans who took an oath to defend our rights and freedoms and many who have sacrificed their time, their own lives and health are not supported as equally.

    the money spent on welfare and social programs, like food stamps, monthly welfare checks, housing assistance, utility subsidies and free phones, is money that could be helping returning servicemen and women, plus our veterans. IMO, they ae way more deserving of that help than lazy deadbeats who take, but give nothing in return.
     
  15. rocshaman

    rocshaman New Member

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    Yep, as far as I'm concerned, they all need to work for what they get. If that means breaking big rocks into little ones, so be it. Taking money out of the hands of those that deserve it and giving it to people that don't is a national disgrace.
     
  16. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    it's been going on for far too long and at the expense of our servicemen, women, veterans and their families.

    this county will spend more money on lazy deadbeats than those who swore an oath and made sacrifices for our country.

    yes, that is a very huge disgrace. i truly wish there was a way to reverse that situation.
     
  17. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    The effect of stealing from one and giving some of it another is to bring everyone down and nobody up! Mutually assured Mediocrity. Im a very proud Veteran that doesnt want a thing free from my government except my rights and Freedoms. Most of us feel that way, all we require is what any Employer is required to do by law, fix us if you break us and pay us fairly for our labors.

    As a young man, I had few choices that fell short of chasing the American Dream. Some were better than other, I was an idiot for not choosing College over the military but either way, Ive done OK. I never had a choice to stand in a line and beg for a check I did not earn but had that been a choice, why wouldnt I have considered it?

    I would have for sure, it took years to earn what folks now get for doing nothing at all! I lived off crap, in a sh!tty little trailer, drove a POS whatever and could barely afford to heat my home much less eat! At some point during that I equaled the income of the loafer I could have become from the gitgo then surpassed it and never stopped moving! What is the impetus for a kid to reach for the brass ring when someone will hand them the plastic one for doing nothing?
     
  18. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    when you give someone something without expecting anything in return, thye lose any incentive in doing anything to better themselves.

    growing up, my father never just gave my brother and i anything we wanted like other kids got from their parents. we had to work for it. my father always had good jobs and made pretty decent money, but he never squandered his money, and our family always had a roff over our heads, plenty of food to eat and decent clothes to wear. what he did give us for free was a good work ethic which has paid off well over the years. was it easy the last 35 years or so? hell no! but everything i have, was because my father taught usto work and earn our way in life.

    when you just give someone something without any expectation of having earned it, a person many time doesn't respect that something or take care of it.
     
  19. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

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    Yes very true, I had a Mom that gave us the same values after my Dad died young. Sadly, too many of the parents now a days are not there to teach their kids morals, just how to get in the right line for free stuff!!