Socialism in America

Discussion in 'History' started by tCan, Sep 18, 2012.

  1. tCan

    tCan Active Member

    1,174
    0
    36
    Socialism/The Cold War was the worst thing to happen to the United States. It made living in fear acceptable.

    The Era of Emergency Powers has coddled us into believing that our leaders will protect us and have our best interest at heart. We've relieved our self of any responsibility to look after our own well being. We are The Nanny State.

    I've become so furious with the attitude everyday, well educated Americans have about the role of government, often regardless of political affiliation. I struggle to think of an event in our country's history that has had a more negative and lasting effect.
     
  2. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

    6,213
    273
    83
    Fear sells. Fear sold fallout shelters during the cold war. Since 911 fear has sold Americans on the idea that a degredation of our Constitutional rights is OK so long as we are "protected".
     

  3. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

    7,510
    2
    0
    I agree TCAN, it because were lazy and totally single minded. Add to that the differences between living on the taxpayer teat or working for a living and weve got to admit, its not so bad to live off everyone else as long as you dont have to do anything to get it!

    The Middle Class is disappearing much faster than it came here and that make us all either rich or poor to some extent. When your poor, your not likely to ever become otherwise, the differences between the lifestyles of the Working and non working poor are minimal. Why work for nothing when you can get the same without working?

    Its getting worse, not better. If we do not save the middle class, we will resemble something out of the Middle Ages before you know it. The Shining City on the hill will be replaced by the Lord of the Manor on the hill and the minions serving in the trenches!
     
  4. PanBaccha

    PanBaccha New Member

    3,054
    0
    0
    It's called 'Operation Dumbing Down.' And, wow! does it work! :eek:
     
  5. towboater

    towboater Well-Known Member

    4,617
    95
    48
    Yep, Like no child left behind.
     
  6. fev

    fev New Member

    119
    0
    0
    Well stated Webley
     
  7. Jim1611

    Jim1611 New Member

    700
    0
    0
    While reading what you posted my mind went back further in history. 1861. Lincoln did many things during the War that were not his to be doing but due to the fear of the war and threat of it going on even longer he was allowed to do things beyond the power of the executive branch. It happens every time something happens to threaten the perceived security allof of people think we have. Just look at all we got from 9/11, Patriot Act, Homeland Security, TSA.

    Despite all of this and all of the power the executive brach wields we still had a Russian nuclear sub in the gulf waters this summer that went undetected, thought we paid allot of money for that sort of thing to be kept an eye on.

    Bad thing now tCan is that we are living more in the fear of our own government. There are days when I seriously believe it is a bigger threat than terrorist. Especially in the scope of freedom. I'd much rather die a free man than live in a country with no freedom.
     
  8. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

    5,407
    676
    113
    We have created and saved the middle class; we just did it in China. A hell of money was made in the process.

    During my youth and young manhood, the middle class got a substantial part of the wealth by working for it. Now most of wealth is created by and for investors, speculators and bankers, and corporate raiders, who do not produce goods or services. It has been a redistribution of wealth from the workers to the shysters.

    I am glad I made most of my living in the 70s, 80s and 90s, cause there is not much for the working man out there now.
     
  9. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

    5,407
    676
    113
    I grew up during the Cold War and I have never lived in fear. Maybe I wasn't paying attention......I am now living in an economic war and am still not living in fear. (althoug I am pissed a bit) I have seen all kinds of changes, and other than the nastiness of the people towards each other and the government, not much has changed.

    You seem to think that "Socialism" is a new thing since the cold war. There has always been some degree of "socialism" in our society. That is why the founders talked about things like:

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Common defence and general welfare could be read as "socialist" ideas, and discussed in the first paragraph of our Constitution....

    It is all a matter of degree.

    I have always been proud of my country and loved it more than my own life. To see our national flag floating in the breeze still makes me damn proud. I honor our founders and the servicemen and women that sacrificed for over 200 years. I served honerably, in our military, during the 1970s and I have to say, I am getting damn sick and tired of people talking about our failed or failing nation. If people really feel that the country has gone so bad they should either work together to change what they don't like or don't let the door hit them in the *** on the way out.
     
  10. kycol

    kycol New Member

    1,506
    1
    0
    Chainfire I do agree with you, it really ticks me when I hear all this crap about us living in a police state. Comparing the U.S. to the nazi Germany because a Leo asked for identification. Well one way you can tell that's not true is your on a public forum saying it and you haven't disappeared. No it not perfect, no I don't like a lot of what's going on. But ranting a lot of militant BS is not going to change a thing. Get involved, call and write your senators and congressmen. Run for office. Win support from others by showing positive light on gun owners.
    Yes I think that government all government (local, state, and fed) is and has been overstepping their boundaries more and more. And they are great at using divide and conquer. They start with the smallest groups, you don't care because it doesn't effect you, so they get away with it. Then they get to something you do care about, you have no support because you gave no support. Hell why do they have a right to decide I can't see or by anything larger than a 16 oz soft drink in a cup. Look at all the smoking bans, the government telling business owners they no longer have a right to allow smoking in a building they own. How many of you set quietly while these people lost their rights. I could go on but you should get my point.
     
  11. tCan

    tCan Active Member

    1,174
    0
    36
    I think chainfire is right in the degree we experience. It's really just a degree. We don't live in a democracy, but there are democratic elements. I think these elements too have grown too large and disruptive for our constitutional republic. Just not to the degree of socialism, with people thinking that they have the right to healthcare, or that it's appropriate send billion/trillions of dollars oversea to "help" other nations, or that the government is responsible or even has the ability to create jobs just by willing them...

    This is an internet forum. It's for discussion, not petitioning politicians.
     
  12. kycol

    kycol New Member

    1,506
    1
    0
    You have to work for change. And you got to do it the right way
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  13. alsaqr

    alsaqr Well-Known Member Supporter

    6,213
    273
    83
    Bingo: The middle class no longer matters to the political pukes who run this country in the name of the international movers and shakers whose pockets they are in.

    Traditionally the US stock market tanks when the economy tanks. Now the stock market is going great guns while the economy sucks. Its an artificial thing: The stock market is greatly over-valued. One day the stock market will suddenly go boobs up: The stockholders, bankers and corporate panjandrums will whine for another federal bailout.


    Wages for middle class working folks are are now at the 1989 level.

    http://www.myfoxal.com/story/19535178/us-incomes-fall-to-1989-levels-how-did-that-happen


    Give this sorry economy a couple more years and US working wages will be at the 1979 level.
     
  14. orangello

    orangello New Member

    19,156
    0
    0
    Maybe a bit off topic, but i was wondering the other day how much the level of acceptable socialism in this country has been increased by the influx of immigrants from more socialist states, like mexico.


    As a youth, i did NOT things like ever-circling bombers and nuke-laden subs comforting.
     
  15. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

    7,510
    2
    0
    I lived near Griffiss AFB all of my youth, The Heavy bombers flew over our area every day but I never had any real fear until I was stationed in Germany. Looking over the Hoff Border at Checks that were ready to kill anything that moved. I realized later that they werent there to keep us out, they were there to keep the citizens in. That made me more angry than scared.

    The day the walls started tumbling down in Berlin, I was nearly as happy as the Berliners! Peace at last but it only lasted a short while and were back where we started with many fronts now not just the USSR.

    Grouping like tasks and Socialism seem allot alike but not so much so really. Provide for The Common Defense refers to our semi contiguous borders that kept growing until we owned a whole continent. That was a great idea, we had lots of NMEs and lots of border and a federal military worked better than just random state sponsored patrols. Its still the best approach today, thats not socialism, it just makes sense. Promoting the general welfare just meant creating a place where all citizens had the same rights to thrive. Tranquility meant living in an untroubled state, free from disturbance and molestation from our own Government. All of these phrases were specifically coined to empower the people and limit the government to very few specific tasks.

    A government with 1000 laws on its books is too powerful and not tranquil.
     
  16. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

    5,407
    676
    113


    How many laws would you accept and consider the government to be in-line with your philosophy? Are 10 sufficient, is 100 too many?

    Western religious tradition gave us ten pretty decent ones. Most of the rest of the laws are to permit some to break some of the ten. How many bankers could live with "thou shall not steal?" Soliders and police could be in trouble on the "kill" thing. How many years would "coveting" get?

    We live in a complicate world, it takes complicated laws to keep thing moving and keep lawyers in business.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  17. orangello

    orangello New Member

    19,156
    0
    0
    I'm not sure it is so much the number of laws as how fairly they are applied and whether those applying them also follow them. As far as 1000 laws, i'd bet there are more than that just for the federal income tax.
     
  18. Chainfire

    Chainfire Well-Known Member Supporter

    5,407
    676
    113
    The tax code is so complicated so that those who make the most money, have to pay the least taxes. We need a flat rate tax that everyone pays the same rate. Billionalre or ditch digger, Microsoft or Mamma's Famous Pizza.
    Don't expect this to happen, fairness is not about to happen.
     
  19. orangello

    orangello New Member

    19,156
    0
    0
    I won't argue the "fairness" of the tax code, but i would suggest you look into the "alternative minimum tax" that limits deductions and credits for higher income filers. It is a bit dated now.

    Any "flat tax" would probably really hurt the paycheck-to-paycheck crowd pretty badly, since the lowest reasonable rate i have seen is about 19% ( a good bit higher than many lower income filers pay now).
     
  20. WebleyFosbery38

    WebleyFosbery38 New Member

    7,510
    2
    0
    The Paycheck to Paycheck Crowd would have to limit their spending on BS and buy the things they need to live. They would not pay taxes if the only things taxed were not the needs in life. Its just that simple.

    Yes, 1000 laws is too many, ignorance of the law is a perfect excuse when you gotta make a living and dont have time to sit home and read up on every one of them. Most laws are duplicitous, we already had legal methods to punish nearly every crime. IE, Texting is a distracted driver, why do you need a special law for texters when we already had one they could be punished for?