so who are these 14 invalid instructors

Discussion in 'Illinois Gun Forum' started by Mack Bolan, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. Mack Bolan

    Mack Bolan New Member

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    Tom Dart- Cook Co. Sheriff claims 14 persons registered as CCW instructors in IL are ineligible to receive their CCW licenses....

    so how did they decide to validate instructor status prior to issuing actual CCW permits....or doing background or criminal record checks?

    gotta love it.......or leave it:)
     
  2. CGS

    CGS New Member

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    Instructors go through the same back ground check process as licensees. But remember LEO gets to object to licensee applications, not instructor applications. Also remember that just because LEO objects doesn't mean the license application will be rejected.

    The grounds by which a LEO may object is (off the top of my head) 5 misdemeanor arrests for any reason within the last 7 years. Or 3 misdemeanors if you are known to be a gang member. That's not even convictions, but arrests. Guilty until proven innocent.



    Ok I looked it up for verification...

    (b) If an applicant has 5 or more arrests for any reason,
    that have been entered into the Criminal History Records
    Information (CHRI) System, within the 7 years preceding the
    date of application for a license, or has 3 or more arrests
    within the 7 years preceding the date of application for a
    license for any combination of gang-related offenses, the
    Department shall object and submit the applicant's arrest
    record, the application materials, and any additional
    information submitted by a law enforcement agency to the Board.




    So if I am a habitual J Walker LEO may object to my CCL application. Of these 14 instructors, I am willing to bet half or more will be later approved through the review board.
     

  3. Shade

    Shade New Member

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    CGS, good summary again.

    Now for the color commentary. Dart is just trying scare tactics for the sheeple
    of Crook County. It will work on some of them. He is doing it to grab
    attention. I know several ISP officers; in general, there is a lot of animosity
    between the ISP (which in my opinion is a very professional organization) and
    the Crook County Sheriff. Dart is a politician and he will pander to his political
    keepers, aka Madigan and Co. Until either the people of Illinois get a clue
    and 'vote the bums out' or when Illinois and Chicago collapse under the weight
    of fiscal mismanagement and corruption we will have to deal with the collapse
    then or as my plan is to move out of the state, that timing is when my youngest
    graduates HS, in 2020. But it could be moved up sooner.

    It is like how a bunch of us instructors were approved for our CCL's then a few
    days later we were all back as under review. We have already passed the
    background check and have been reviewed by Local LEO's for 30 days, you
    know Madigan got wind they were ready to send out the first wave of licenses
    and they said whoa we do not want that, make them wait the full 90 days!!!
    And then they put out that BS story about they are just running checks on the
    computer systems... Yeah like anybody with a clue believes that...
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  4. purehavoc

    purehavoc New Member

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    I read a recent article about this , where the person may be a well know gang member with no convictions or priors. This gives the local LEO a chance to stop it before it ever begins . Smart idea really
     
  5. clr8ter

    clr8ter New Member

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    So they are saying that gang members are applying for CC licenses? I find that a little difficult to believe. Kind of like a criminal going to the gun shop and doing the BG check to get a gun….
     
  6. Shade

    Shade New Member

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    Actually one of the leaders of a gang in Chicago did recently apply, he has a
    cleanish record and does meet all the requirements for CCL. The story made
    the local Chicago news for a few days.

    Now here is the push, if we allow the "system" to prevent him from getting a
    CCL. Then we open the flood gates for the "system" to prevent me from
    getting a CCL because I am a member of the Illinois Militia or the VFW or the
    Republican Party or the Tea Party or Opus Dei or ....

    Whether someone 'has ties' to a criminal gang or not, is irrelevant and in the
    eyes of justice (remember she is portrayed as being blind folded) unproven.
    Only convictions should count against an applicant; not arrests and not
    associations. What if you are an upstanding law abiding citizen, and your
    brother is a dirt bag gang banger done hard time POS; they could say you
    have ties to the gang, because you see your brother a few times a year at
    mom's house. The part of the FCCA law that counts arrests to preclude CCL
    will not hold up in court if it is every challenged; and I bet someday it will.
     
  7. clr8ter

    clr8ter New Member

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    Right, they should not prevent that guy from getting the permit, agreed. What I don't understand is why a dumbass like that would even bother to apply, and make himself more known to the cops. It's not like they won't carry anyway, right?
     
  8. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    if that one gang member keeps his nose clean, he can legally buy guns for the gang. gangs have been doing it with straw purchases for years. using girlfriends, wives and family members with no criminal records to buy guns for thsoe who did have criminal records.
     
  9. CGS

    CGS New Member

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    There was a known gang LEADER who applied but got swept up in the LEO objection process. He had many arrests but no convictions. Yeah 99.99% aren't going to apply.
     
  10. clr8ter

    clr8ter New Member

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    So what does being the leader have to do with anything?
     
  11. CGS

    CGS New Member

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    The fact that it doesn't get much bigger than that.
     
  12. KG7IL

    KG7IL Active Member

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    This is one of those slippery slope things.

    I want to continue to have my right to buy a gun and give it to my wife, grandchildren, son, etc.

    Here is Washington State (now run by democrats, but still has great gun rights) we will voting on I-594, titled "BackGround Check".

    The argument above (gangs/straw buyers....etc) is going to be used to restrict my rights.
    In the end, if they can't straw buy, they will steal without paperwork.

    I would rather that they straw buy from an FFL and leave the paper trail. Pretty unusual way of looking at it huh?

    Illinois is going to struggle with it's fool laws. Washington is working on it.
     
  13. CGS

    CGS New Member

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    Just look at illinois. Laws against straw purhcases do not stop gang bangers from buying guns. Gang Banger wants glock. Gang Banger instructs girlfriend who has no criminal record to buy glock. Girlfriend passes back ground check. Gives glock to gang banger. If girlfriend is smart, which we know she isn't because she is straw purchasing, she will report it stolen.


    Laws only infringe on the law abiding since the criminals will always find a way to get around the laws. How will another law or another background check stop that process from happening? It won't.

    I hope your I 594 does not pass.
     
  14. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    the thing is gang bangers using the straw purchase method of buying guns isn't anything new. they have been doing it for many years now. even passing tougher gun laws in regards to a background check are not going to stop the gang bangers or criminals from getting guns.
     
  15. awahlster

    awahlster New Member

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    WOW slightly looser requirements to get a CHL then in Oregon.
     
  16. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    I can see how gangbangers who have the ability to so legally would seek to obtain a CCW, but I cannot see why they would necessarily want to become instructors. Even if they instruct fellow gangbangers on CCW if they have a record they will not obtain said CCW. Or am I completely off base?

    If a gangbanger has a CCW and uses his legally carried gun to return fire in a drive-by (or perhaps he does a drive-by and then reports it as he was returning fire and defending himself) then he may get away with it. Not so if he is carrying illegally.

    Now there was no attached story on the OP so I am working without a net, but what if a guy has a string of arrests but has never been convicted of any crime because, say, he has the same name as a notorious criminal? Or maybe he was implicated in a felony but the charges were dropped?

    Innocent till proven guilty should rule the day.

    On a related note, how many people are charged for attempting to illegally purchase firearms every year? As I understand it if a person is denied they just walk away.
     
  17. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i think i see where you're going with this. and will add this into the subject.

    an arrest isn't a conviction and knowing someone is guilty is still far from being proven guilty. i will cite my opinions on the OJ Simpson case, most people believed he was guilty of murder, but the state failed in proving he was guilty. so therefor he is innocent of the charges and by all rights should regain all of his rights.

    a gang banger caught doing something illegally should be charged with the crimes he committed. if those were felonies and he has a CC permit, then it would be revoked. if then caught with a firearm , he would be no different than any other felon in possession of a firearm and go back to prison.
     
  18. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    If he uses the gun in the commission of a crime that is a felony. Yes. But if he plausibly uses it to "defend" himself, say from a drive-by shooting that happens to be a rival gang, then it would be up to the Court to prove he was in the act of committing a crime. Conversely, if he did not have a CCW, he would have been illegally carrying and that is a crime in and of itself, let alone discharging said firearm!

    My point is that if the guy beats the rap of the other crime, his having a CCW would prevent him from a conviction on that charge which would automatically make it into a felony. Don't get me wrong, I am just spitballing here.
     
  19. Axxe55

    Axxe55 The Apocalypse Is Coming.....

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    i completely understand and was spitballing with you! a gang banger involved with a rive-by shooting and having a CC permit and claiming self defence kind of seems almost like a Catch 22!
     
  20. Vikingdad

    Vikingdad New Member

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    Well, maybe not a Catch-22 but I think I know what you mean.