So this is my logic - does it make sense?

Discussion in 'General Handgun Discussion' started by rozzysean, Jun 20, 2009.

  1. rozzysean

    rozzysean New Member

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    I'm in the lengthy process of getting my Massachusetts LTC. Luckily, I have friends in law enforcement, a clean record, and a few legit reasons, so the LTC shouldn't be a problem once I finish the steps. I'm fairly experienced shooting rifles and somewhat experienced with shotguns, but I have almost no experience with handguns bigger than .22 and .25 cal. I would just get a shotgun, but for all the trouble I would need to go through to get a FID for rifles/shotguns, I might as well get a Class 1 LTL. Since I live in the city pretty close to some high crime areas, I want a shotgun for the house and a handgun to carry/keep in the car/under the pillow.

    I know I want something with more pop than the .22's and .25's I've shot. From what I've read and heard from the hand full of experienced shooters I know, 1911's are the best in the business if you can afford them and I have a feeling I will want one at some point. Magnums are out for me because my neighborhood is too dense. That's why I like the idea of a .44 special or .45. Big and slow. The problem is just the up front cost, and the cost and availability of ammunition to hone my skills with a pistol.

    I'm thinking that once my LTC comes through, I should get an decent but fairly inexpensive 9mm to use for practice and defense until I can afford a good 1911. That way, I won't waste my money shooting a 500 or 1000 rounds of expensive .45 cal to get my accuracy up to snuff. I have to imagine it's a pretty big step up from small cal pistols to medium/large cal. Also, in a pinch, if my wife had to use it, I suspect she would be better off with a 9mm next to the bed if I'm out of the house.

    So does this seem like a sound strategy for entering the world of handguns in a state with the most restrictive gun laws in the country? Am I wrong in thinking the step up from a 9mm to a .45 is less than the step up from a .25 pocket gun to a 9mm? Am I wrong to rule out the .38?

    Any feedback would be appreciated. This board seems to be a pretty good source of info.
     
  2. Texanbybirth

    Texanbybirth New Member

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    9mm isn't cheap either. Since you want a 1911 anyway, I'd suggest a .22 conversion kit so you can practice with a 1911 using cheaper than dirt .22 ammo. That way, you practice with your carry gun.

    A moderately cheap, full size DAO 9mm or 38 revolver might be good for the wife around the house. Easy to operate and not much kick.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009

  3. rozzysean

    rozzysean New Member

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    That's actually a really a good idea to practice with gun intend to carry, but unfortunately, I can't really afford the 1911 at this point. I could afford a moderately priced 9mm, but yeah, compared to price of .22, 9mm is still pretty expensive. I'll look into 9mm's that have conversion kits. It might be a good idea to just pick up a .22 for practice and cheap fun at the range. Maybe I'll just pick one up and wait on the 1911. I have a few months to figure it out anyway.
     
  4. Flint Rock

    Flint Rock New Member

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    I'm guessing by the time you buy a centerfire and a 22 conversion kit you will have spent more money than you want to. Given that you don't know me and that my opinion carries little weight, I would recommend a S&W M&P 9mm compact. It's a great carry gun and 9mm is the "cheapest" defense round you can practice with. In Wal-Mart here in Georgia 9mm runs about $22 per 100. For the price of a conversion kit you could get over a 1000 rounds of 9mm,,,,,, that's a real good start.
    All that said, with some effort on Gunbroker.com you could find a 1911 for under $500.
     
  5. Franciscomv

    Franciscomv New Member

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    I think you're on the right track about 1911s, they are head and shoulders above any other pistol design. Saving up for a good one is a great idea.

    In the meantime, starting with a well priced 9mm seems like a good plan. A .45 might be a bit too much for your wife to handle, and it's always good to have at least one home defense weapon that the whole family can use. My main home defense handgun is a .357 revolver, but I got a 9mm semiauto recently because my girlfriend can't handle the magnum's recoil.

    There are lots of good choices out there, I'm very fond of the CZ 75, it's rugged, accurate and well priced. You can also get a .22 conversion kit that fits the CZ 75 and 85 models (it's called Kadet, if I'm not mistaken). The M&P series of pistols by S&W is quite nice as well, I keep a full size 9mm at home. The interchangeable back straps are nice, the smallest ones fits my girlfriend well, and it's a simple "point and click" sort of weapon.

    I was tempted by .22 conversion kits a while ago, but I realised that most of them cost as much as a good .22 pistol. So instead of getting a $300 kit, just buy a Ruger MKIII or something like that.

    If you've got a range that rents guns near you, try out a few different models and see what feels best for you.
     
  6. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Why buy a conversion when a whole gun can be had for the same price. I just ordered this 1911 .22lr.

    http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/...gsg-1911-gerg2210m1911-22lr-14794/#post117338
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2009
  7. gorknoids

    gorknoids New Member

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    You'll pay a premium simply to have "1911" stamped on whatever dream firearm you choose. Yes, it's a great platform, but then again, Ford owned Volvo until a few months ago. Big guns make big holes, but you don't hear many .45 fans cheering for .50 concealed carry weapons. Any 1911 is going to be a large-framed piece, and despite what you're told, they don't hide very well. Great weapon as a back-up in combat, but unwieldy and cumbersome under a shirt.
    Look for the attributes which suit you and your situation, and then shop for a weapon. Trying to get comfortable with a firearm by shooting .22 out of it and then expecting it to shoot the same way with .45 is not logical. You have sneezed harder than a .22 discharge. .45 is a whole different thing.
    If you're worried about lethality, the Nazi child-porn freak who murdered the security guard at the Holocaust Museum used a .22. One shot.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that you need to fit the tool to the entire job. Don't buy a primary weapon just because it has a legend. Buy what you need.
     
  8. GHOSTSSX

    GHOSTSSX New Member

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    Are a Colt Defender or Kimber Ultra Carry considered large-framed guns??

     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2009
  9. BILLYBOB44

    BILLYBOB44 Active Member

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    rozzy-just a different take on subject.

    With your mention of big bore-ever think of a Charter Arms BullDog. .44Spl. 5 shots, big slow slug-can be bought fairly cheap. Wife should have easy time shooting. I think reasonable priced loads, for the CowBoy Action circuit.--Just another thought????????? PS-Welcome to the forum-Have fun+speak up!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2009
  10. JoshX3Magazine

    JoshX3Magazine New Member

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    Every firearm caliber out there has killed people at one point or another. Of course, some have killed more than others, some carry more energy and penetration than others, but a well-placed shot or group of shots will protect you with practically any good, quality weapon that goes "bang" every time you pull the trigger.

    Both your original thoughts and the comments of everyone else here make sense. All I can add are my personal experiences.

    I've owned .38 snubbies, 9mm compacts, .357 Magnum medium frame revolvers, a subcompact Glock .40 and a full-size Glock .40 and hell, even an FN 5.7mm pistol that packed 20 rounds per magazine. They were all fine weapons and, when used properly and within their intended uses, would knock down men and zombies alike.

    I recently bought my first .45, a Colt Commander, and I love it. The .45 is a big round that does bad things when it hits, but I've already found ammo hard to come-by.

    Having considered it, the best advice I have for someone who wants stopping power but at the same time a relatively inexpensive weapon that can be practiced with and learned, why not split the difference between 9mm and .45 and go the .40 S&W route?

    Even the biggest names in .40 pistols like Glock, Springfield with their XD line, FNH USA and now Smith with their outstanding M&P line can be had for several hundred dollars, rather than over 1000 for a .45. Taurus .40 auto pistols, which in my experience as a gun shop employee, are pretty good and can be had for even less, in many cases under 500 bucks. Ammo is hard to find, yes, but that's true of all calibers. I've found with .40 that if you look hard enough and at enough places you can find it and actually afford to learn to shoot with it.

    With .40 you can carry almost as much as high-cap 9mm guns but enjoy increased power. The recoil, though higher, isn't bad at all. You can get ahold of the ammo, afford the gun and afford to go shoot it and actually carry a gun you're familiar with.

    Just a thought.

    Josh
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2009
  11. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    + 1 gorknoids!

    You need to ask, but you need to buy the one that fits you, both literally and physically!

    If you buy on my recommendation you will wear my gun on your hip! You need to wear YOUR gun on your hip. [​IMG]
     
  12. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    No, but along with small(er) framed 1911's comes a diminished grip. This is only a problem if you have large hands.

    As you can see I needed to add a mag-well and an 8 rd mag to provide length to improve my purchase on the stocks!

    For me I should have got the Commander model but......I love this Defender and have little trouble concealing the gun.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. GHOSTSSX

    GHOSTSSX New Member

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    Thanks Cane.

    I really was taking this statement to task, but didn't do it very well:(i was trying to be nice :) )

    "Any 1911 is going to be a large-framed piece, and despite what you're told, they don't hide very well. Great weapon as a back-up in combat, but unwieldy and cumbersome under a shirt"
     
  14. rozzysean

    rozzysean New Member

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    Thanks for the welcoming and thanks to everybody for the feedback. The Bulldog is on my list, for sure. I'm glad you mentioned it. I wasn't sure about the price on .44 spl, but it's good to know that there are reasonable load out there for for it. I've never shot a revolver...I'm a little wary of a .44 cal revolver, but I'm open minded to it...I know, I'm a newb.

    I'm also going to look at a few Rugers in 9mm, .40, and maybe even 45. I have time before I'll even be able to make the purchase.
     
  15. Stormbilly

    Stormbilly New Member

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    If you're new to shooting, I'd personally recommend a 9mm or 357/38. Yes, a .45 in a 1911 platform would be the best in general, imo. But this can be more expensive, and I've found the .45 to be a hard thing to practice and get good with it when you're a beginning handgunner.

    Two guns I'd recommend. Keep in mind this is personal preference. In 9mm (also comes in 40 S&W) would be any CZ. If concealment is your thing, look at the 75 compact and the 75 compact P-01. Both great guns. Reliable, very accurate, and fun to shoot. My other thought would be a Ruger SP101. You can practice with cheap, low recoiling, 38s, or upload to 38+p or even 357. (though don't go to 357 until you have some experience.) While 38s and 9mm don't quite have the stopping power of a 45, these guns I mentioned are easy to conceal and pack enough punch for defense. Not to mention they are relatively easy on the wallet. In my area, the SP101 can be had for $459, the cz compact for ~$500, and the compact P-01 for $575-625.

    Just some thoughts
     
  16. rozzysean

    rozzysean New Member

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    That is pretty much what I was thinking originally. If I get a 9mm, it will end up being my wife's gun a some point. I don't know too many people who have only one pistol. I'm sure at some point I'll get a 1911, but it doesn't seem like the sensible and economical first centerfire. I'll be taking a class in a few weeks where I'll be firing a bunch of rounds with a Glock 19 and a Glock 22. I'll have a much better idea then. I'm curious to feel the differences between those two.

    Thanks for the suggestions.
     
  17. Stormbilly

    Stormbilly New Member

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    Oh, and if conceal and carry is not what you're going for, I'd highly recommend a Ruger GP 100. My personal preference is one with a 4" barrel. I guess you can see that I really like ruger revolvers. As a matter of fact, for a first handgun, I really think that a revolver is the best choice in general. They are easy to use, and a 357 can shoot a huge variety of ammo. From light load 38's up to heavy loaded 357's. But ultimately, you have to buy the gun that you like and is comfortable for you. If you don't like it, you won't shoot it much. And if you don't shoot it much, it's not of much use.

    But these are all just my opinions.
     
  18. canebrake

    canebrake New Member

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    Well I might as well really confuse you.

    Ask anyone here and they will tell you I'm a 1911 died-in-the-wool shooter/CCW, better yet a Colt 1911! (Real men shower with a 1911!) Problem is that 90%+ of my life was spent in the rust belt. Now that I'm in South Florida and gettin' on, a steel Government 1911 is next to impossible to carry here in Ft. Lauderdale damn near all year round.

    Oh yea the second thing they will tell you is, cane hates tupperware! Well here's my mea coupa; I took a look at the new Ruger LCR and fell in lust! 38 spl +p with a loaded weight of <16 ozs!

    Give it a look; I think you may find it as handsome as did I.


    [​IMG]
     
  19. Texanbybirth

    Texanbybirth New Member

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    If I were going to get a revolver, the LCR would be it period Friday is my payday and I think I have decided on a Kahr CW9. The store down the street has it for $420. It's smaller than the LCR and stainless. Does the LCR come in stainless? That would be very tempting. A 9mm doesn't quite have the stopping power of a .38+p, but should be more than adequate with the right round.
     
  20. rozzysean

    rozzysean New Member

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    That's a pretty damn sexy piece! If I was looking to carry, I would seriously look into that. Maybe I will anyway. That looks like something that could be great for occasional times I would want to carry and a second gun in the house that my wife can use.

    Don't worry, Cane, at some point I'll have that 1911 and not some half assed knock off. It will be a good one. When I go there, I won't go half way. I'm willing to wait. I won't carry it, though. I live in Massachusetts. I will need to be extra discreet. What I need is a something to protect my home, not kill the neighbors, and be a pleasure at the range. That's why once I know what I'm doing and can afford a good one, I get a 1911.

    So many choices out there. I had no idea.