so I was browsing FBI statistics...

Discussion in 'Legal and Activism' started by blueocean, Jul 3, 2015.

  1. blueocean

    blueocean New Member

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    So had some free time at work ;) and browsing some FBI stats from 2013 on states with constitutional carry, Arizona, Alaska, Wyoming, and Vermont. I know Kansas and Arkansas do now, and Missouri too, but weren't in 2013.
    I see that of all the murders committed with firearms in these states (362) only ~58% (210) were with firearms, which I thought was significant, as folks were mighty inventive in finding ways (42% of the time) other than guns to kill those that make them cranky. ;) Almost makes one think that removing guns would stop murders...almost. LOL

    In fact, in Alaska, more murders were committed with "other weapons" (13) than with firearms (12) which also did not include knives or other cutting instruments...frozen fish perhaps? Once can only wonder...

    Vermont, where only 5 murders by firearms are listed, and 3 with "hands, fists, feet, etc" where I suppose the gun was just too darn far away, so I'll just beat the crap out of the person ;)

    It should be noted that in California, there were 1,745 murders, of which, 70% were with firemarms (1,224) so obviously gun control laws is the answer...
     
  2. artbrownsr

    artbrownsr Forum Chaplain Lifetime Supporter

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    OK! I state the OBVIOUS, the real control was in NOT using a gun to take the other fella out even though it might have been handy and as in Vermont maybe even getting rid of your frustration with some exercise:pot stirrer:
     

  3. Balota

    Balota ... but I used to play keyboards.

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    Arizona, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming combined had 362 murders. California had 1745. The four states had 210 firearm murders. California had 1224.

    I only have 2 degrees in math. But I don't think I need either of them to get this message.
     
  4. theboombrigade

    theboombrigade New Member

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    These are the points I argue with every anti Gun nut job I run into. Gun control does not work. I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago (yes, suburbs) back when Gun control was ridiculous. More so than now even. I visited a friend who lived off of MLK Jr. While he attended college. No bull, law was no one could have a gun outside their home unless it was locked in a lock box, ammo out of the magazine in a separate container, and a foid card (firearms owners id). That didn't stop gangs from openly caring unholstered pistols showing clearly in their pants, and a few openly caring AK's. Bad guys do not care about your rules, hence being a "bad guy".
     
  5. Mercator

    Mercator New Member

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    The population of California is 37 million. The combined population of the rest is less than 9. That's one.

    Two: urban crime is bigger than rural. The only large metropolis in the 4 states is Phoenix. Cali has several, and bigger still.

    Bottom line - there is no hard evidence, one way or the other. There is, however, wishful thinking on both sides. Sorry, just doing my job.
     
  6. MisterMcCool

    MisterMcCool Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Let our side manipulate the numbers too. :p
     
  7. TheSadPanda

    TheSadPanda New Member

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    Thank you, Mercator :)
     
  8. theboombrigade

    theboombrigade New Member

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    So Mercator, California has 4x the population, and 6x the gun murder rates? I see an increase of approximately 50%.
     
  9. Mercator

    Mercator New Member

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    Most likely because of the demographics.

    Look, the gun-friendly Alabama has a higher murder rate than CA. Nevada, about the same. The stats are not convincing either way, much as some folks want them to be.

    Added: Even within the DOJ, the BJS crime stats are often different from the FBI bureau of stats, because of the different methodology.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
  10. theboombrigade

    theboombrigade New Member

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    Touche... wish I had something better to say. Really want to argue the 'I'm right your wrong' cliche, but I don't really have anything to stand on at the moment. In the unlikely event that I think of or discover something, I'll let you know.
     
  11. Balota

    Balota ... but I used to play keyboards.

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    How do their stats today compare to their stats from before they passed a "shall issue" CCW law (or declared for constitutional carry)? For that matter, are they all "shall issue"?

    Though I agree with you about the demographics aspect. So per capita, the differences are not so large. And California has a much higher urban population. So a somewhat higher incidence of gun related murders is to be expected with a higher concentration of gangs, for example.

    Do the FBI statistics enable someone to distinguish between murders related to gang activity from other murders? If so, how do the non-gang murders per capita compare?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  12. GTX63

    GTX63 New Member

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    AFAIK, there were no demographics figured into the amendments as written, notably the second one. While I believe there may be plenty of numbers out there to make pro gun points, there are folks out there that know little and care even less about self defense and gun rights. And actually, if you dig into some of the homicide stats of the larger cities, ie Chicago, you will find that they will purposely miscatagorize some deaths in order to artificially lower homicides and/or death rates due to firearms.
    I guess my point is, regardless of the latest numbers or who recorded them, the little lady in Baltimore was supposed to have the same rights as the rancher in Wyoming.
     
  13. Mercator

    Mercator New Member

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    No doubt she does. Being sober with facts and numbers is not subversive to 2A :)

    The violent crime/murder rates have decreased nationwide. The South still has the highest as a region, Northeast the lowest. The latest preliminaries suggest an uptick in some areas. If it materializes, it is going to be known as the Obama reversal :(
     
  14. microadventure

    microadventure Active Member

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    the problem with statistics is they present facts minus reality.

    When I moved to New Mexico from California, nobody asked me my name, anywhere. I go to the same restaurant twice a day for two and a half years, nobody asked me my name. One day, a waitress said "then" and I heard "Dan". I asked her why she finally used my name, and she asked me what IS your name? after I told her my name, all the waitresses started calling me by name. they figure if you don't tell them your name, you don't want them to know their name, and they don't read your name off your credit card.

    same thing different way: I find myself explaining to blacks in bars: It ain't racial. the reason nobody is talking to you is that you did not talk to them first. they figure if you don't start the conversation you don't want to talk, so they respect your wishes and leave you alone.

    600 miles, 100% attitude change from in your face confront California. From "What you looking at, sucka?" to "Well, I guess people look at other people where he comes from".

    without that context, the statistics are facts devoid of information.