So-called Gun Show Loophole

Discussion in 'Gun Shows' started by GunLover1969, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. GunLover1969

    GunLover1969 New Member

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    I was watching one of the Sunday morning debate shows today and I kept hearing one of the anti gun panel members talking about the gun show loophole. She was stating that buyers don't need a background check in order to buy guns at a gun show. Now admittedly, I've only been to gun shows here in my home sate of Washington, and I've only been to gun shows put on by the Washington State Arms Collectors, of which, only members can purchase guns at the shows and members can sell to other members because the club, Washington State Arms Collectors does a background check on all members when they join. Even though I've never been to gun shows in other states, I find it hard to believe that a buyer can purchase a gun at a gun show without a background check. Is the the case? What are the regulations/laws? www.MyGunDiary.com
     
  2. gunsmoke11

    gunsmoke11 New Member

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    I'm sorry, but looking at Che Guevara who was a marxist revolutionary is making me feel a little uncomfortable for some strange reason. I'm sure he would've been against gun shows, period.
     

  3. Jpyle

    Jpyle New Member

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    No such thing as a gun show loophole. Every licensed dealer in the Unites States is required to perform a background check on every sale...whether it takes place in their store, a gun show, or the mens room of the local Walmart. What the anti gunners refer to as the "loophole" is a sale that takes place between two residents of a state...such a sale is not considered to be interstate commerce so the BATFE basically has no jurisdiction over it, state law applies exclusively so if the state permits the sale there is no federally required NICS (backgroung check.)

    Now about that avatar...Che was a murderous scumbag, not a post modern hero and I find his image to be repugnant. Don't be surprised if most people here simply ignore you because of it, just MHO.
     
  4. rhyno13

    rhyno13 New Member

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    FFL dealers still have to do the paperwork, even at gun shows. Only private sellers can sell weapons without the paperwork.
     
  5. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    In our culture the short span of thinking requires a catch phrase. Col. Sander used Finger Lick'in good to sell fried chicken. The antigun campaign uses Saturday Night Specials, Assault Rifles and Gun Show Loop Holes to sell their chicken Sh&t. The gun show Loop Hole is code for lets ban firearms exchange between citizens. Now lets say we passed the Loop Hole Law. How can you enforce it? We would have to register every gun to every owner. Oh yes Alice, they forgot to mention that little detail.:eek:
     
  6. Hectocotylus

    Hectocotylus New Member

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    In Washington I have been to shows and no background check is done. Maybe these people qualify as private sellers but lets be real a table with a hundred guns isnt me selling a gun to my neighbor who I know isn't a felon. They have only checked for a drivers license to check for state residence (which is ineffective anyway).
     
  7. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    What are you saying? I really doubt your statement. I attend gun show large and small. Any dealer who has 100s of guns and is doing no Brady Checks is one day from a Federal Pen. The law allows individuals to sell personal firearms if both parties live in the same state.

    There are more BATF agents at large gun shows than Jerky Salesman. They are checking every one who has more than a few guns. They check idividuals who do repeat shows. They audit gun show transfers. The owners of gun show are now required to report every dealer that buys a table. :(
     
  8. sugarayk

    sugarayk New Member

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    loopholes dont matter?

    now what i think some people might be referring to is the transactions that happen between people at the show or in the parking lot. ive been to a few gun shows actually one just today an im not 100% sure but i believe ANYONE can pay to set up a vendor (non-dealer) table an sell just about anything they want so long as they pay the fee. I did see some individuals in the far off corners selling odditys, toys, books, knives along with a few weapons. What i want to know is at what point is some one considered a "dealer" as opposed to a weekend vendor??? It wont matter anyway because all anyone has to do is go to the local backpages.com website an find just about anything one could be looking for. So even if the so called "loophole is closed" how do you regulate that.


    Ray in AZ
     
  9. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    First, it is ILLEGAL to "engage in the business" of buying and selling guns without a Federal Firearms License. In ANY state. There is no such thing as a legal "weekend vendor". Doing this on a regular basis, you'd best have a license.

    There is no magic number of sales- it is defined as "devoting time and attention to making a livelihood".

    A Dealer (without regard to where the sale takes place) MUST do the same paperwork, same background check as if they were in their shop.

    CAN I legally set up a table at a gun show, flea market, or yard sale and sell guns? Yes- on an occasional basis. I can also legally (in most states) put a note on the bulletin board at QwikEmart, an ad in the local paper, etc, and sell to a resident of my state that I do not have cause to believe cannot own a gun.

    "Gun Show Loophole" is a created term- like "Sniper rifle" or "Assault Rifle" or even "Cowboy Hat" (worn by cowboys- everyone else wears Western hats).
     
  10. DrumJunkie

    DrumJunkie New Member

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    You are right but I know whatHectocotylus is saying. The local shows here will have both FFL dealers from shops and some private sellers. Some of these I've seen with a pretty big table(s) of guns and I have seen them in more than one city doing a show. Hell, be in this area the last weekend in Oct and the Court Days festivals are going on in two different towns that are loaded with people buying, selling, trading guns.Many of which can have as many as 2-3 tables of guns set up. And I've never seen a FFL dealer at the festivals.
    Not I will say those guys at the fest I have not seen at an other gun show or gathering but many of those venders go some place to place selling things. Great place for tools and other misc stuff by the way. If you're going to be in Central Ky around that time it's well worth checking out.:)
     
  11. robertb6112

    robertb6112 New Member

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    Doesn't make you sick that people argue something they don't have a clue about?
     
  12. c3shooter

    c3shooter Administrator Staff Member

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    Drum- you are right- and IF you have someone that is buying and selling REPEATEDLY without a license, sooner or later the ATF is going to dump on them. About a year ago they nailed an FBI agent that had bought and resold about 50 guns over on Gunbroker.com.
     
  13. hiwall

    hiwall Well-Known Member

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    People do illegal things all the time. Whether it be speeding, selling drugs, shoplifting, whatever. They break the law until they are caught. Then they go to jail. That is the way the legal system works. You can not be arrested until you break the law. So I have no doubt that everyone has seen people do things that were illegal. About guns, now you know what is legal and what is not. End of story.
     
  14. HOSSFLY

    HOSSFLY New Member

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    Yeah- its as bad as throwing in a really OT statement in the middle of a thread:rolleyes:
     
  15. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    My personal opinion is if you dont use a ffl to transfer a gun to a buyer in state or not i have no problem with the family members of people murdered by the buyer to come after your stupid @ss in court.

    Is it your right to sell to a stranger who claims he/she is legal to buy??? sure it is. Are you an idiot for doing it?? yup. How would you feel if that lanza clown used a gun you sold to him without an ffl check to murder those kids??

    As it turns out he tried to buy a gun and was turned down. Buying guns without running a nics and relying on the criminal to tell the truth when you ask is just as freekin stupid as relying on a no guns here sign to protect you.

    Sorry but im a strong believer in that every gun sale should be run through a nics. Everyone should be able to call nics and ask if so and so is legal to buy not just ffl dealers.

    You dont ask nics about the gun itself they dont ask for the serial number only whether its a long gun or a pistol. Guns sold by a ffl arent being "registered" when nics is called
     
  16. nitestalker

    nitestalker New Member

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    That is interesting always ask for permisson? How long before all the Information on the arms and buyers are required? The Conn. police stated that the gun and ammo will be traced back to the factory where it was made. This will prove a need for National registration. NICS has always been on the leading edge of Back Door registration.:(
     
  17. bonney

    bonney New Member

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    I have bought many a gun at gun shows, both inside and out in the parking log, without showing any ID, and in any case, all it would take is a 1/2 hours worth with computer, photoshop, printer, laminator, and presto, different ID. If take the trouble with disguise, that's that, as far as anyone ever knowing a thing about it. If you want complete protection, of course, you have to have an accident on the frame,with the drill and the Tig welder, right near the end of the row of numbers. Of course, this scarred up problem will then require refinishing of the frame, So be careful with your gunsmithing, guys.

    As far as selling the jerk a gun, I'd feel the same way as if I was a hardware store clerk, and I sold him some insecticide that he put in their food. It's on HIM, not me.
     
  18. silverado113

    silverado113 New Member

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    I've sold several guns with no NICS check and I'm a dealer. CCW in most states is all you need. So whether I do a 4473 and use a CCW or a private seller doesn't do a 4473 but sees the CCW what's the difference?
     
  19. JonM

    JonM Moderator

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    None. Ccw ownership is sufficient for me. Drivers license or state id card isnt.

    And if you can manufacture a believable id card in a parking lot with a laptop and a printer that would pass a nics check i would love to see that.

    Its not about asking permission its about confirming what this yahoo in front of me ive never met before is telling me the truth. I dont see how hard that is to do as a private citizen. The only reason i dont sell without using a ffl is because i cant call nics to tell me this guy that wants to buy a gun is telling the truth.
     
  20. silverado113

    silverado113 New Member

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    Sorry to tell you Jon, neither can NICS, but I understand your point