Small caliber CCW

Discussion in 'Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection' started by IDVague, Mar 14, 2011.

  1. IDVague

    IDVague New Member

    202
    0
    0
    In this discussion, small caliber means anything from .380 and smaller. I have read several discussions with statements about small calibers like "with heavy clothing a BG might not feel it" or "it will only piss off a BG on drugs". I'd like to hear from two groups in this thread.

    (1) People who have SHOT another person with a small caliber handgun

    OR

    (2) People who have BEEN SHOT with a small caliber handgun

    The question is: Will a small caliber handgun do a good enough job of protecting me or is it a false sense of security?
     
  2. Colossal Urprising

    Colossal Urprising New Member

    135
    0
    0
    There are ways of testing ballistics without having shot someone or being shot by. If someone is here after being shot by, then they are either a criminal or stupid.

    Here is a ballistics test posted on another forum I am on.

    TEST ONE

    .380ACP Federal Personal Defense (90 gr. Hydrashok)

    Calibration = 3.1875" velocity = 582 ft./s.

    Shot 1 - Penetrated 12.5"

    Shot 2 - Exited block at 11.9375"

    Shot 3 - Penetrated 12.4375"

    Shot 4 - Penetrated 11.9375"

    Shot 5 - Penetrated 12.0625"

    Average impact velocity = 843 ft./s.

    Average recovered diameter = 0.469"

    Firearm = Kel-Tec P3AT


    TEST TWO

    Hello. I tested 5 rounds of .380ACP Federal Personal Defense from a P3AT in Ballistic Gelatin last weekend.

    The gelatin was Vyse brand, mixed at 10% concentration into an FBI sized block (6x6x16)". Calibration BB traveled at 594 fps and penetrated 9.4cm.

    The front of the block was covered in 1 layer of 100% cotton, new and unwashed, fruit-of-the-loom T-shirt material. This material was chosen after reviewing several 100s of mugshot photos of violent criminals and their choice of upper body clothing. It also is representative of clothing worn most of the time in the southern US, where I live.

    Average penetration was 12.0"
    Average expansion was 0.476"
    Average impact velocity was 839fps.

    Lot number = 2 09H449

    This test was undertaken to find an expanding load for a semiauto .380ACP with a short barrel, that would penetrate to FBI minimum penetration depth. This turned out to be a very hard thing to do, with only the Federal load making the cut. I would seriously recommend to short-barreled .380ACP owners to test your bullets in a valid medium or have them tested by someone qualified to do so.


    Here is a ballistics comparison between 9mm and .380.
    9mm Versus .380 ACP For Self-Defense
     

  3. danf_fl

    danf_fl Retired Supporter

    12,369
    57
    48
    Sometimes, the just the sight of any firearm could stop an altercation.

    But I don't like to bluff with a pair of 2's in a poker game, so I won't take a chance with a .22 when my life is on the line.
     
  4. Car54

    Car54 New Member

    2,103
    0
    0
    In 30 some years I cannot recall any incident where clothing stopped a round. I have seen badges, notebooks, pens, wallets, and other objects stop or deflect a round.

    As to the smaller calibers, don't discount the damage they can do. Countless times I have seen gunshot victims die when shot with .22's and .25's. The bullet entered a part of the body and then zig zagged after bouncing off bones like a pinball and either exiting or remaining inside and causing so much internal damage the person died.
     
  5. cddbrowns

    cddbrowns New Member

    1,075
    0
    0
    I have to agree with this, any type of projectile flying at the speed ammo does is going to cause enough damage to either seriously hurt if not kill. I have an LCP and although I would rather be shot with that than the 1911, it would still be luck that would bring me out alive if not seriously hurt.
     
  6. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

    8,358
    4
    0
    I will say this, never underestimate any small caliber, or the damage it can do. They will, and can indeed kill you.

    Close proximity shots and placement, soft tissue targets, head, face, neck, chest, arms, groin, legs, feet. Keep firing, making all rounds count.

    And I have never been attacked by a block of ballistics gel.....just saying. :cool:
     
  7. utf59

    utf59 New Member

    676
    0
    0
    There are cases, though where clothing has filled the hollow area of a hollowpoint bullet, causing it to fail to expand. That usually happens with much heavier clothing than a T-shirt, but it does happen. And that can dramatically affect the damage the bullet will do internally.
     
  8. Car54

    Car54 New Member

    2,103
    0
    0
    I have heard that before and it's very possible, but I'm saying with over 30 years of LEO work I have not seen it happen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  9. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    2,188
    0
    0

    Or...as in my case...didn't duck fast enough. :)
     
  10. cddbrowns

    cddbrowns New Member

    1,075
    0
    0
    Or their home was invaded, or they were in the military being shot at, or they....
     
  11. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    19
    38
    geez then your either a slow criminal or a slow moron.
     
  12. Poink88

    Poink88 New Member

    1,116
    0
    0
    What? Ever heard of the word victim, LEO, or soldier?
     
  13. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    19
    38
    damnit you ruined it. read up to what 762 was replying to :)
     
  14. 7point62

    7point62 Lifetime Supporting Member Lifetime Supporter

    2,188
    0
    0

    I choose Door #2 hahaha :D
     
  15. Colossal Urprising

    Colossal Urprising New Member

    135
    0
    0
    I've never known a criminal to use a .380. They usually use .22LR or 9mm in my experience.
     
  16. JonM

    JonM Moderator

    20,110
    19
    38
    ive found in my few years of LE .25auto was quite popular with the goblins as well.
     
  17. victorzamora

    victorzamora New Member

    155
    0
    0
    While you're probably right that .380 isn't a common round for baddies to use, I know of at least one baddie that did. I was staring down the barrel of a .380 snub nose (sorry, I was 10 so I didn't get a brand/model....plus they look the same). I can tell you, though, that he had an FMJ bullet in there.
     
  18. Alchemist

    Alchemist New Member

    266
    1
    0
    Hmmm... Snubnose... Must've been a .38 if it was a revolver... Just sayin'... Trying to keep our termination accurate as possible so browsing folks don't get TOO confused...
     
  19. Poink88

    Poink88 New Member

    1,116
    0
    0
    Oops...sorry. :eek:

    I didn't know criminals have so discriminating taste. LOL :D
     
  20. Bootsdeal

    Bootsdeal New Member

    99
    0
    0
    In my TCP738, which is a BUG, I have the magazine alternately loaded with hollow point and FMJ, which hopefully is the best of both worlds. I figure seven well-placed rounds should be enough if ever necessary.