SIR: What About The "Shelter" Effect?

Discussion in 'Survival & Sustenance Living Forum' started by Succinct, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. Succinct

    Succinct New Member

    88
    0
    0
    My wife & I are preparing for SHTF, but it dawned on me this morning how potentially pointless it could be - recalling the story line from the Twilight Zone story "The Shelter", where a single prepared family in the 1950's had a life-or-death struggle with their neighbors over their fallout shelter & food/water during a nuclear threat in Rod Serling's intellectual thriller, "The Shelter".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shelter_(The_Twilight_Zone)

    We live in a socialistic wanna-be upper-class suburban HOA-controlled neighborhood but we have great neighbors, and there are many kids. My point is, how do you sort your close neighbors (some of whom probably didn't prepare anything) form the "Zombies" if the SHTF? Obviously, we'll only have enough for my family (maybe, if we get enough stored up). it could get real ugly with my neighbors, and that would suck. Mossberg won't care, but I might.

    Anyone thought this one through? :confused: This is where rural living is better....
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2009
  2. MrKimber

    MrKimber New Member

    174
    0
    0
    First, I would not tell anyone what I have in storage or for a shelter and stuff like that. Keep it secret and plan for more in your family than you have if you can. Personnally I will not "offer" anything to anyone out of the blue but if someone knocks on my door and says his family is starving I will feed them, no problem. I would recommend moving out in the sticks if possable. Just think how much food money or anything else money you would have to spend if you were living in a manufactured home on few acres instead of paying you current mortgage and HOA fee's and other costs where your at now. I know this doesn't help much, but there is still some time to prepare. If you can't grow a garden you might want to look into some long term freeze dried or dehydrated foods. They can store for long periods of time and don't really take up that much space. Also try your hand at home canning. Hit the local farmers markets and purchase fresh vegtables and can them up as much as you can. Canned foods can last for very long periods of time and before you know it you have a years supply or more on hand. A Ball Blue Book on Canning will give all the info you need to do this. Reaching out to those in bad need of help should also be part of your plan because it WILL happen, just don't over do it and don't tip your hand as to how much you have. Another thing we have been doing is buying the canned soups and chili and stuff like that at our local winco and wallyworld that is on sale. Sometimes a can of chili can be as low as 50 cents a can. We have purchased several hundred cans of food. This we will hand out while we eat on our home canned supplies and when that all runs out (barring hunting of course) then we will break out the freeze-dry. We have freezers as well but we don't see them as primary food since we may not have power. Yes we will eat on the freezer stuff too as long as it is kept frozen.
     

  3. user4

    user4 New Member

    3,414
    1
    0
    This is a good discussion point. Being a man of faith, I will share my resources with my neighbors and trust in God to provide.

    As a man of practicality, I am watching my neighbor's children and planning which BBQ sauce they would taste best with.


    I kid! Seriously, the only thing you can do is the best you can do. It sounds lame, but in the end your conscience be your judge. Rural living is definitely better if you can pull it off.
     
  4. 1984cj

    1984cj New Member

    296
    0
    0
    Teach a man to fish.

    Make friends with your neighbors and get them interested in prepping for hard times. You can point out that FEMA even reccommends that you keep a 72 hour supply on hand at all times for emergencies.
    Other than that I would practice Opsec. If the locusts have nowhere to get the food then they will move on.
     
  5. Dillinger

    Dillinger New Member

    23,972
    2
    0
    This is a very good discussion point actually and I would like MANY to weigh in with their views.

    1) I don't believe we will see the dreaded Space Zombies in my lifetime, so I am saddened about that - but content. :rolleyes:

    2) That doesn't stop us from throwing a few extra cans of this, or that, in the cart at the store and putting it on the shelves in the garage. Hey, you never know - Right? :D

    I am with Ineff, conscience, for me, is going to be my guide. I am a generous person, by fault, but I have no problem taking care of me and mine first. There is no shortage of people in my little community, and a lot of them have jacked up trucks, and NRA stickers and other things that would lead me to believe that I will not be "alone" in the preparation department.

    Then I have a few "other" houses in the neighborhood that will probably be first on the Zombie Buffet plan as they are Left leaning, Prius ( or other offensive vehicle ) owners and frequently can be heard at the community meetings complaining about noise from parties or other such non-sense.

    In a Katrina type, short term situation, I feel that you would probably need to be able to take care of yours for a week. 7 days. That is what we plan for in a short term situation, with water and processed foods and things of that nature.

    We have started growing some of our own veggies and "we" have taken a more active interest in survival type shows that show how to deal with life when necessities become scarce. I say "we" because I used to watch them and my woman would space out, get on line or leave the room. Then Katrina hit and suddenly she became the second coming of Sarah Connor. :D

    I have a natural gas powered generator hard wired in at our place, so even if we have a ( flood/windstorm/tornado/Mt. Ranier blows it's cork ) and the power lines come down, the gas is always on unless the Earth splits open and the Main needs to be shut down. That means my house will immediately be more secure, but also attract more attention. :eek:

    Luckily for me, most of my neighbors know that I work part time in a gun shop, that I enjoy my 2A Rights and that I carry quite a bit of the time. Try picking up your garbage cans from the curb one day after work with your shoulder rig on and see how quickly word gets around... LOL

    I think you can get too wrapped up in your planning, so moderation is always the key. Don't go into debt preparing for Space Zombies when there are no reports coming out of NASA, you know what I mean? You don't need 10,000 rounds of AR ammo and a $3500 stick to sling lead just because someone on a forum is saying they have that set up.

    Truth be told, 100 rounds of AR ammo and 50 rounds of pistol ammo, per person/weapon in the house, is a HELL of a lot of firepower. Especially if the situation is a Natural Disaster and the rest of the country isn't affected.

    Now, in the event of total social-economic breakdown caused by the brains in Washington - well, that would be a whole 'nother story.

    Do I think that WILL happen? No, probably not. Does that mean I am not headging my bets, just in case....

    Well, I would defer to your own best judgement in that question....

    JD
     
  6. IGETEVEN

    IGETEVEN New Member

    8,358
    4
    0
    Indeed, that would be the best strategy, I do not share or play well with others, unless they have something to contribute.
     
  7. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

    3,865
    0
    0
    Gives new meaning to the term "baby back ribs," doesn't it?
     
  8. user4

    user4 New Member

    3,414
    1
    0
    Mmmm... Children *drools*
     
  9. bkt

    bkt New Member

    6,964
    0
    0
    Encourage your neighbors, friends and family to stockpile what they can now. You don't need to go into lurid detail about what you have stockpiled. In fact, don't tell anyone. Give them information on food and water storage containers, sources of food, maybe help them getting a veggie garden going.

    The more people who prepare now, the fewer there will be looking to take from you should the SHTF.

    As for helping others in need...that will have to be on an individual basis. If you're my friend who I know prepared and for whatever reason your supplies are gone or you can't get to them, then of course you're welcome. If you ignored my advice to prepare and have an "I'll just go to your house if things get rough" mentality, you will get nothing and you will be forcibly turned away.
     
  10. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

    3,865
    0
    0
    Are they really more tender than adults? I'd think the little ones would be stringy and tough, while a nice fat desk jockey would have tender, well marbled muscles.
     
  11. 1984cj

    1984cj New Member

    296
    0
    0
    But Hey, If your prepared for Zombies you should be prepared for just about anything!

    So Desk Jockey's go on the smoker and little ones get a marinade:D
     
  12. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

    3,865
    0
    0
    It's a little known fact that zombies are currently our largest threat. All it takes is one outbreak and it's the end of the world as we know it.



    I never thought about it that way. It's always good to share thoughts when it comes to cannibalism, you come up with better recipes that way.
     
  13. user4

    user4 New Member

    3,414
    1
    0
    All of it is edible, it's just how you cook 'em. The big fatty will shrivel up in a crockpot, but slow roasted over an open flame? Deeeelish!
     
  14. Troy Michalik

    Troy Michalik Is it Friday yet? Supporter

    2,455
    1
    0
    I, like Ineffable, am a man of faith, and trust in the Lord to provide. Now does that mean that I trip along through life like the fabled grasshopper? Umm…….no. I believe in preparation and in being as self sufficient as possible, and if along the way I am able to bless someone a little less fortunate out of my excess, then I will.

    Also, while canned foods do last quite a long time, remember to rotate your stock. I cracked open some of my Y2K stash a couple years ago….. Now I’ve heard of aged beef, but aged green beans are another thing entirely.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2009
  15. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

    3,865
    0
    0
    I have no problem with Jesus, it's his fan club that I dislike.
     
  16. user4

    user4 New Member

    3,414
    1
    0
    Say when and I'll make the introductions...
     
  17. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

    3,865
    0
    0
    Thanks, I'm cool. We can get together for a beer sometime, but no preaching.

    I'm a huge fan of his teachings, but, by and large, most of his teachings have fallen by the wayside in favor of religious fervor and church dogma. Most that truly follow the ways of Christ are considered cultists, pacifists or hippies.

    When I got clean, I "white knuckled it" rather than go through a 12 step program and admit that I was powerless to my addiction and admit that only god could help me. Strangely enough, I'm still clean to this day without God and using only my power of will.
     
  18. Succinct

    Succinct New Member

    88
    0
    0
    OK, OK, I am a Christian first, but I didn't intend for this thread to get "preachy". I REALLY appreciate the points brought up - THANK YOU!! OPSEC will indeed be our SOP for as long as we can do that. The key to OPSEC is EVERYONE could see the "shelter" being built, but no one needs to know what we've stockpiled inside my house.

    But yes, we have some lib neighbors who LOVE the way things are now going politically (Civic hybrids, Obama stickers, etc). My next-door neighbor is a really good guy but we hardly speak to one another when I found out what a socialist he is and how ridden with "white guilt" he is. He has two teenage daughters. I believe our communication lapsed when I asked him why he was in favor of his daughters being able to get an abortion or morning-after without his knowledge, and with very little REAL medical breifing to the patient prior to the procedure....

    Now, the LAST thing I want to do is spark a racism debate, but back to the point about the space Zombies - that wasn't 'quite' what I meant by SHTF. I am referring to conditions like looting post-Katrina. Also, my CCW instructor actually brought up a point I hadn't previously thought thru - an assasination of the sitting president, who is half black. Anyone who remembers the Rodney King beating and the O.J. aftermath in the early '90's has lived thru racially charged days (and riots in some places). I believe this type of thing, amplified a few 100x, is what my instructor was probably referring to when he said we should be prepared to last 2 weeks minimum (until "order can be restored" - as he put it, regardless of the cause). Who knows what may happen? Another fear is my own government taking over my home, like what is happening in Sudan under Mugabe where people are being forcibly removed from their homes to make way for those the government deems more "worthy" of the property. Those who resist are summarily executed.

    One other point: Gas generators. They are great, but back during Hurricane Isabel I and my neighbors endured minimum of 18 inches of flooding (18" in my garage, 4 feet deep @ the street) Ev-ry-where. My next-door neighbors had natural gas-powered generators. I had a portable. After the flooding both NDN's generators were FUBAR. I drained my generator fuel tank and carb float, dried them out, put fresh gas back in, and voila! - I was the only one with a working generator for a week! Just sayin'.

    THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR THOUGHTS/INPUTS!!
     
  19. matt g

    matt g New Member Supporter

    3,865
    0
    0
    Honestly, I'd worry more about hurricanes, floods, fires and earthquakes more than I would civil unrest. I'll deal with fires and you'll deal with at least 2 hurricanes this year, your chances of massive civil unrest or other zombie hordes are slim to none.

    I can assure you that the FBI, CIA, NSA and the Secret Service are doing more to protect this president than any other.
     
  20. ScottG

    ScottG New Member

    1,614
    0
    0
    People have said here, and other places, that they would have no qualms about turning away friends and neighbors who refuse to prepare, or who think they're entitled to your benevolence and protection, or just plan to take what they want from you when disaster strikes.

    I believe that is the wrong position to take. Of course we can't give aid or food or water to everyone who knocks at the door, but this modest proposal should be acceptable to all members here on FirearmsTalk.

    We know the possibilities of losing all electrical power and other forms of combustion. No matter how much we might be able to stockpile, an event of a long duration will eventually deplete the supplies. Food stocks will shrink and other sources of nutrition will be required in the event of complete societal breakdown.

    This is where the good hearted FirearmsTalk member can really shine their light to humanity in those dark days of disaster aftermath. For if society falls into chaos, we know that FirearmsTalk members will be the new elite of a rebuilt nation.

    We aren't concerned here with those rural members, as we know they will certainly be self-sufficient on their land. No, we are concerned here with those members in the suburban setting. Many people now live in walled or gated communities. These communities will be excellent places to begin to rebuild society along the lines we know will flourish.

    The FirearmsTalk member will of course lead the new enclaves of civilization, along with other members of the gun culture who survive. These new Spartiates will be the civil and military branch of the area. And what of those who drive a Prius, or have O stickers on their cars? Well, of course, we do need laborers. It seems the best option is indeed, not to run out those examples of homo democraticus pathicus suburbanensis, but to employ them in the services needed to maintain our new, improved society. The large swaths of parkland or lawns in the community can become farmland. As working stock will be in short supply, or non-existent in the area, what better way to plow the ground than to harness a few of the leftists and have them turn the ground? Who else to use to reload our guns, make our sandwiches and keep our houses while the burdens of leadership rest on our shoulders? No one else is so fitted or so desirous to be bound to a government master than the leftist!!!

    Yes, friends, let us not turn away the Prius driver, or the O sticker owner, but make them partners in our new society. Let them experience their joy to the full as they labor for a government that only has their best interests at heart. When, or if, disaster strikes, help your fellow man by making him work for you. Only then will the leftist be truly free-- and we of them.....